Unused kit lying around; does it deteriorate?

[Mike Reed]

My friend has decent systems in most rooms of his 3 bed semi, yet he lives alone and rarely has staying visitors. We're talking Epos, Naim, Cyrus etc. here. He even has an Orbe/Five & Titan i unused for 4 years.

I'm the opposite, only having hifi systems in use as needed. Yes, it could be worthwhile to have a back-up, though this becomes expensive as you ascend the hifi ladder. Recently, I've wished I had back-up amplification that would suit my ESLs, but I'd worry that whatever isn't being used would, in time, deteriorate, even if it didn't depreciate. Bit like motor vehicles, I s'pose, though not much is hifi has moving parts.

I really don't know if, for example, electronics (esp. in amplification) can be adversely affected by longer-term storage (say, 4/5 years or more?) Any ideas?

 

[uncl_nigel]

No idea about electronics but I do know that anything with a belt in it needs occasional use to avoid deforming the belt.
A case in point: my dealer recently took my quite recent CD transport (still under guarantee) as a trade in - it had been unused for just 6-7 months - he had to change a belt in it before he could sell it...

Same reasoning seems to underlie the use of jacks under vehicles in museums (to protect suspension and tyres).

 

[Vinny]

Damp, even indoors is the main problem. Ideally stuff ought to be stored in something like an airing cupboard.
The main sufferers are electrolytic cap's and wound components.

As the industry has long-since moved to lead-free solder, that MAY cause problems over long periods, only time will tell.

Rubber components, such as most belts will harden and oxidise. there is no easy way to avoid that

 

[Tony L]

Yes, it definitely deteriorates if left to sit too long. Always store electronics in the house (i.e. not the loft or garage where temperature extremes are far greater) and power things up for several hours every 6 months or year at the outside. It helps keep capacitors ‘formed’ and other components dry. It is safe to power solid state amps up with no speakers connected, but never do this with a valve amp.

 

[ryder]

Good thread. Since Tony has mentioned, I may need to power up my Naim amps which have been idle for more than 6 months now. Perhaps it's a good time to do some comparison between the Naim and Luxman with the upgraded mains and power cord.

My other integrated, a Sonneteer Orton has also been sitting around for more than 6 months doing nothing. Perhaps l'll listen to it tonight..

I find that speaker deterioration is more complicated but it's not so much about sitting idling or in use. Externally, oxidation around black screws to the cabinet or speaker terminals may form over time. Fine dust may also form at the fabric of the grilles. I use Deoxit to clean the rust and a slightly damp cloth to wipe away the dust on fabric of the grilles. However, I'm not so sure about the internal parts of speakers such as capacitors etc. Do they deteriorate if not played? Speakers with foam inside the cabinet will deteriorate over time though.

 

[wylton]

I really don't know if, for example, electronics (esp. in amplification) can be adversely affected by longer-term storage (say, 4/5 years or more?) Any ideas?

Yes, it definitely does; for example, I sold a Pioneer 3-head cassette deck her on pfm, when I bought my Nalamichi. It was fine when I last used it, someone bought it and I though I had better give it a quick test before dispatch only to find it didn’t work anymore! I ended up giving to him FOC; it may well have been a quick fix. Sometimes it can work in your favour. I bought a Nakamichi 670ZX, not working for £45. It went off to B&W for a service and came back as good as new. No fault was reported, so it was most likely hardened grease in the drive chain. I worked in the service sector for a while and components age regardless of whether the equipment is used or not, that’s why you have to take care when running up old equipment tha’s been sat around for a while.

In older equipment, components can change value and deteriorate, particularly the older carbon resistors and capacitors, and even the insulation in older type of cables can break down too. I remember in the workshop, we had a big old variac that had sat in the corner for years unused. One day, we had a piece of equipment come in and we needed to use this variac. As a precaution, we did a PAT test on it before firing it up we, which came out ok, but when we switched it on, it went bang. A closer look revealed that the elderly rubber insulation on the mains inlet cable was dry and cracked.

Equipment likes being used. I have three vintage turntables and I often run them to keep the mechanisms in running order if I haven't played records on them for a while.

 

[Tony L]

However, I'm not so sure about the internal parts of speakers such as capacitors etc. Do they deteriorate if not played?

In my experience speakers that have spent a long time in storage take a long time to really wake up. Sometimes weeks. I guess this is a combination of adjusting to the humidity of the room, driver surrounds and spiders loosening up and capacitors reforming.

PS I’m also very wary of firing any stuff up directly after it landing from a courier where it normally feels so cold. I tend to let things get to room temperature first. This would obviously be wise if anyone stores kit in a garage or loft (which I really don’t advise!).

 

[wylton]

..if anyone stores kit in a garage or loft (which I really don’t advise!).

Yes, note to self, must get those two Naim NAC 12s in from the shed/workshop!

 

[Mr Pig]

A friend of mine has his Hi-fi system in the shed, his wife won't let it in the house (yeah, I know). His CD player packed in last week which prompted a discussion on how he was not going to experience reliability from Hi-Fi equipment stored and used in an unheated wooden outbuilding.

Kit stored in the house is different. If it's kept warm and dry it's usually going to be ok. It might not be, but most of the time, it'll be ok.

I have a clock radio which has been switched on more or less permanently for over forty years and still works perfectly ;0)

 

[Tony L]

Yes, note to self, must get those two Naim NAC 12s in from the shed/workshop!

The problem is the thermal cycling, stuff can freeze in winter and bake in summer. It’s a widely known thing in the vintage computer community where now desirable but obviously obsolete computers were dumped up in the loft for 30+ years of baking in the summer and freezing in the winter and now have hopelessly brittle and yellowed plastics, capacitors looking for an excuse to explode if they haven’t already crapped all over the board etc. Audio kit fares no better. Obviously anything really old will need rebuilding, but this temperature cycling increases problems hugely.

PS It reminds me I really need to pull both my vintage Sony TA-1150 amp and Quad 34 for a power up.

 

[Vinny]

I have a clock radio which has been switched on more or less permanently for over forty years and still works perfectly ;0)

Me too.

If only it wasn't pale cream...........................

 

[Tony L]

Other things to remind people:

a) Take batteries out of everything you store! Nothing ruins kit more than battery acid.

b) Take any foam out of any classical vinyl box sets or old fat-case CDs. It turns to crap and has likely already caused damage. Regardless if you have a collection large enough that you have items sitting unplayed for years go check them all now!

 

[datay]

Other things to remind people:

a) Take batteries out of everything you store! Nothing ruins kit more than battery acid.

Just bought an Arcam CD73 on ebay, pictured showed unit in very good condition and indeed it is. The ad made no mention of original box (as there isn't one) but described the player, remote and manual all present and "in very good condition". The button side of the remote was pictured.

As soon as I unpacked it (could have been more careful considering no original box), I checked to see if the remote had batteries, well it did, but they had visibly leaked through the battery cover, whatever the name for the gunk is, it was spilling out of the battery casing. I removed the batteries and did manage to clean it up with cotton swabs and a bit of distilled vinegar. Contacted the seller and asked how could you package it up and not notice this, and describe it as "in good condition"? He said it was his recently deceased father's player and he hadn't looked at the back of the remote. The seller "doesn't accept returns" (don't know if the eBay Money Back Guarantee would apply just for remote) but a remote with old leaked batteries should be reflected in price. I decided to give him the benefit of th doubt, though, as I think I have cleaned up the remote ok.

That's a rather long-winded way example of why the batteries should be removed from anything not in use!

 

[Mike Reed]

It is safe to power solid state amps up with no speakers connected, but never do this with a valve amp.

Is this across the board? I have a vague feeling that my EAR mono's are okay to be powered up without a load, but must ask EAR on that one. Obv. there's a technical reaspon why s/s and valved differ in this way; wonder what it is.

In my experience speakers that have spent a long time in storage take a long time to really wake up.

Yup! Pulled my old Rogers LS6As out of storage and fired them up prior to selling some years ago. I thought they were broken, but after an hour they were really singing. Understandable with cone speakers, I suppose.

Good point above about belts; record player ones, anyway. Didn't realise CDPs used rubber belts (live and learn )

 

[Tony L]

That's a rather long-winded way example of why the batteries should be removed from anything not in use!

I actually started a thread on the subject a few weeks ago here. I’ve moved to good quality rechargeable batteries now as they don’t leak, though I still need to think about 9V.

Is this across the board? I have a vague feeling that my EAR mono's are okay to be powered up without a load, but must ask EAR on that one. Obv. there's a technical reaspon why s/s and valved differ in this way; wonder what it is.

Yes, you can totally blow up a valve amp without a load, output valves and transformer. I’d be amazed if the EAR was an exception. It isn’t an instant ‘bang’, but they will fail within a period of time. I’ve never done it as I’ve always known about it (applies to guitar amps too) so I don’t know how long the period is.

 

[amazement]

I would add new equipment, I bought a new old stock Naim 25dr obviously stored in a stock room for a year when I first powered up it kept tripping our consumer unit and it arrived by courier on the coldest day of the year. It wouldn’t stay powered until all condensation had disappeared and I’m sure had got into the internals while in storage.

I would also include new speaker’s especially if purchased in the winter months.

I bought a battery lawnmower last year, the instructions specify not to leave the battery or charger in a shed or garage over the winter months as it will affect the life of battery and charger.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

It is usually OK to power up hi fi valve amps without a load. If it has negative feedback it will usually be fine.
Worst case is zero feedback tetrode and pentode amplifiers but these are virtually unheard of in hi fi. More common in guitar amps and non hi fi PA amps etc.

They will laugh at short circuited speaker output though.... whereas a SS amp will blow up depending on protection circuitry.

 

[robbyd]

Electronics (amps) stored in the loft...

dry but cool/cold at this time of year.

is this a no no? Is long term damage likely or not a problem?

thanks

 

[Tony L]

For further clarity on the valve amp situation the Leak Stereo 20 manual states a 16 Ohm resistor should be connected across an unused channel. Obviously this is for long term mono use, but I’d personally not power up a valve amp to reform the caps etc without such a load in place. Why take any risk for the price of a resistor?!

 

[Mike Reed]

For further clarity on the valve amp situation the Leak Stereo 20 manual s

Clearly says that it's bad practice to power up any (ANY) power amp without a speaker or resistor connected. Presumably that goes for s/s too! Maybe it's simply the circuitry/design of the Leak which proscribes this practice, but I'd've thought this unlikely. Maybe the Leak has minimal or no feedback?

Why is nothing simple in hifi (or life?).