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Brexit: give me a positive effect... IX

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Remain lost the Brexit vote because they could not offer a compelling vision for the 17.4m.
What's complicated about that?

It really doesn't matter that the kids in your circle can study in Utrecht inside the EU, not to someone who thinks they have lost income and work due EU migration (in one of the many forgotten parts of the country).

A strategy of 4 years of slagging them off is not going to win them back.
Remain could have won the Brexit vote if they'd promised unicorns, fairy castles and sunlit uplands with puppies and kittens for all. That's basically how Leave won it. And they won it because the 'someones' you refer to wanted to believe it, no questions asked. What's complicated about that, either?
 
Regarding, Putin, how do you know Sean? The report said that the government “had not seen or sought evidence of successful interference in UK democratic processes,” so if they hadn't looked for the evidence, it's not surprising that nothing turned up. :rolleyes:
There's evidence that e.g. Russian trollbots barely paid any attention to Brexit. I know that if you take either the Tory party or the Tory press out of the equation then you'd never in a million years get Brexit or anything like it. Putin can be in the mix or not. It's pure deflection to keep blaming an external enemy for something that the British establishment did to us in broad daylight.
 
Well I was wrong, wasn't I: I thought that a 2nd vote was probably the way to go. I convinced myself that the more people saw of Brexit of the less they'd like it, and that working class supporters would peel away from the Tory golf club types. Duh. Of course people saw a 2nd vote as an attempt to steal a win from them; of course they took it as proof that Labour wasn't listening to them. It was very hard for me to admit all this because it meant that the likes of Stephen Kinnock were right all along, but I sucked it up.

The only thing I was right about was that Putin and Cambridge Analytica had f-all to do with any of it!
...and yet here we have Tory, Labour, UKIP and the bewildered liking each other’s posts. Funny old game eh?
 
There's evidence that e.g. Russian trollbots barely paid any attention to Brexit. I know that if you take either the Tory party or the Tory press out of the equation then you'd never in a million years get Brexit or anything like it. Putin can be in the mix or not. It's pure deflection to keep blaming an external enemy for something that the British establishment did to us in broad daylight.

But it isn't pure deflection to say that we don't know how much influence that Putin had on the referendum result if the government deliberately chose to ignore the threat. I'm not blaming an external enemy (because the magnitude of their success is unknown), I'm blaming the Tories for failing to do their job properly in a matter of national security. Suggests to me you are interpreting what I said through your own prejudices.
 
The sight of the whole Labour parliamentary party bar about 30 of them, trouping out behind Jeremy Corbyn into the same division lobby as the Tory Party to immediately trigger Article 50, isn’t easily overlooked. What was the advice from Milne- don’t alienate the Labour Enoch Powell vote after all the work I’ve put in?
 
How's your Tory Brexit going EV? Any positive effects yet?
I’m constantly puzzled by the fact that EV and the other couple of people voted for it, they got what they voted for and yet their entire energy is devoted to finger pointing away from what they got. How does that work?
 
But it isn't pure deflection to say that we don't know how much influence that Putin had on the referendum result if the government deliberately chose to ignore the threat. I'm not blaming an external enemy (because the magnitude of their success is unknown), I'm blaming the Tories for failing to do their job properly in a matter of national security. Suggests to me you are interpreting what I said through your own prejudices.
I don't know how you got to that. But I'd suggest that the determination to see this as a matter of security involves some deflection, and takes you into the domain of right wing leavers. External threat, traitors, our brave boys, all that. Meanwhile, the Conservative Party, the press, Mandelson, all right there in front of you, boasting about how they did it. "But there's no evidence to say Fu Man Chu didn't do it is there!"
 
The sight of the whole Labour parliamentary party bar about 30 of them, trouping out behind Jeremy Corbyn into the same division lobby as the Tory Party to immediately trigger Article 50, isn’t easily overlooked. What was the advice from Milne- don’t alienate the Labour Enoch Powell vote after all the work I’ve put in?
I thought we were done talking about Labour?
 
I don't know how you got to that. But I'd suggest that the determination to see this as a matter of security involves some deflection, and takes you into the domain of right wing leavers. External threat, traitors, our brave boys, all that. Meanwhile, the Conservative Party, the press, Mandelson, all right there in front of you, boasting about how they did it. "But there's no evidence to say Fu Man Chu didn't do it is there!"

So, by saying that the government didn't do their job, I'm in the realm of right-wing leavers. Riiight. Are you really saying it wasn't worthy of a proper investigation? That's all I'm saying.
 
I don't know how you got to that. But I'd suggest that the determination to see this as a matter of security involves some deflection, and takes you into the domain of right wing leavers. External threat, traitors, our brave boys, all that. Meanwhile, the Conservative Party, the press, Mandelson, all right there in front of you, boasting about how they did it. "But there's no evidence to say Fu Man Chu didn't do it is there!"
Aliens.

It's always aliens.
Watch any episode of "V", and then watch how 'Nige' downs a pint.
Definite clues right there.
 
So, by saying that the government didn't do their job, I'm in the realm of right-wing leavers. Riiight. Are you really saying it wasn't worthy of a proper investigation? That's all I'm saying.
That's not all that you're saying though is it.

Tory ties with Russian oligarchs is something that bears looking at, obviously. The idea that Putin did Brexit is nuts though. And the obsession with security, external threats, internal traitors is objectively right wing territory. Or what was all the fuss about "Crush the Saboteurs!" about? That's not to say you can't have a look around but liberal obsession with Putin goes well beyond that.
 
The only thing I was right about was that Putin and Cambridge Analytica had f-all to do with any of it!

Yep it was a firm called Aggregate IQ that did the damage, the idea that Russia did nothing is a bit fanciful as they had a lot to gain for not much effort.
 
That's not all that you're saying though is it.

Tory ties with Russian oligarchs is something that bears looking at, obviously. The idea that Putin did Brexit is nuts though. And the obsession with security, external threats, internal traitors is objectively right wing territory. Or what was all the fuss about "Crush the Saboteurs!" about? That's not to say you can't have a look around but liberal obsession with Putin goes well beyond that.

Oh come on. Any potential election or referendum interference is a national security matter, and you know it. I'm not saying that Putin did it directly, but he would have known about it at the least. But without a clear path to follow the money we will never know.
 
I thought we were done talking about Labour?
The parallel here is that this thread asking for benefits from Brexit ended up prompting denialism and blame from Brexit voters for the manifest failures of their Brexit. You appear to have exported the same thing from the Labour threads: everyone else is to blame for the abject political failure of the party apart from yourselves. Was the Starmer thread not generating enough audience?
 
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