Schroder Model 2
- Thread starter Vinny
- Start date
Darren L
Egalitarian
I met Frank 18 years ago , thinking it was his first London hifi show, he was there with Terry from Loricraft audio, I had a real good chat with Frank, lovely fellow, he explained at length his tonearm design and chatted quite a bit about music and music reproduction, unfortunately it was a static display, he had at that time the Model 1, Model 2 and Ref tonearms, the Ref was mounted on the new Loricraft Model 501 turntable.
I was very taken with his designs and will definitely try one of his tonearms at some stage in the future.
I was very taken with his designs and will definitely try one of his tonearms at some stage in the future.
The Model 2 (at this time, pre Brexit finale) is no great price in the overall scheme of tonearm prices. I did enquire of a UK distributor and was told that supply of parts for the Model 2 has currently dried-up, but delivery is notoriously less than instant anyway.
How things will pan-out come the finale.....................
How things will pan-out come the finale.....................
I introduced Schröder tonearms to the UK and was the original distributor back then in the early 2000s and sold quite a few. Certainly most of what will be in the UK nowadays. The issue is not with the parts availability, it is more to do with the waiting list for one of Frank's tonearms. The way of the world today is that people just don't want to wait the time it takes for Frank to supply one. I remember about 20 years ago I ordered a beautiful Italian sofa and had to wait about 6 months to get it. It was what I wanted so I was happy to wait the 6 months before it was delivered. Today is a very different story. No one wants to wait months any more for something special, least of all what amounts to a piece of Hi-Fi.
The Model 2 is an excellent tonearm. Have you thought about the CB tonearm which is also excellent?
The Model 2 is an excellent tonearm. Have you thought about the CB tonearm which is also excellent?
topoxforddoc
pfm Member
I have a carbon wand Schroeder Model 2, which has served me loyally for 15 years or so. It has been supplanted by a Schroeder Reference, but have kept my Model 2 in storage. Frank did tell me that I could have my Model 2 upgraded. But as Frank's arms are painstakingly all built by him, I knew that an upgrade might take a while - hence the purchase of a second hand Reference about 2-3 years ago.
Thanks both.
The simple answer is no, two reasons - it is a broadly conventional unipivot, and price. The 2 is attractive because it is a very rare bearing principle, and price.
@topoxforddoc - would you consider a loan (or sale) of the 2? Deposit or some such arrangement not a problem for a loan, I might even be able to arrange collection. Drop me a PM if you would consider the loan (or sale), please.
The simple answer is no, two reasons - it is a broadly conventional unipivot, and price. The 2 is attractive because it is a very rare bearing principle, and price.
@topoxforddoc - would you consider a loan (or sale) of the 2? Deposit or some such arrangement not a problem for a loan, I might even be able to arrange collection. Drop me a PM if you would consider the loan (or sale), please.
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Both have their pluses and minuses. The CB scores better in the mid and lower registers and the Model 2, Schroder DPS, Reference and Reference SQ are excellent in the mid and high registers as well as providing slightly better spacial information. I wouldn't dismiss the CB, as it is very fuss free, where as the other models might require regular checking and adjustment of the magnetic gap. The CB is not a unipivot and it has almost friction free bearings. I have personally owned all of these tonearms and have installed many on turntables over the last 20 years with the exception of the CB.
Thanks again.
It is claimed to be a unipivot by one of? the? UK distibutor, albeit of unusual bearing design and with "maglev". I'll keep my eyes and ears open for any that come up secondhand, but the CB is likely to be a bit rich for me as secondhand prices seem to rival new.
topoxforddoc
pfm Member
Hi Vinny,
Thanks for your interest. To be honest, I'm planning on keeping my Model 2. As I have a Platine Verdier, I can put two arms onto my TT. The Model 2 is already mounted on a PV armboard and it would be a 10-15 minute swap for me. As the waiting list for one of Frank's tonearms is somewhat indeterminate, I'm quite happy to keep it. Good luck in your quest. The Model 2 is very good and much cheaper than a Reference or LT.
Best wishes
Charlie
Many thanks @topoxforddoc for getting back to me. It already being mounted, rather still in storage, it obviously makes no sense to lend it out.
You might be best looking for another make of tonearm as the numbers sold here in the UK you could count on your hands and feet, unless of course you want to order a new one. I know where most of the original tonearms are and who owns them. You might be lucky and dead mans shoes kick in. Certainly another one to look at is the Thales Easy.
I was looking at ordering a new Model 2. As above - the cost is not great compared to tonearms in general, and a wait for delivery is not a problem. That said, there is a used Model 2 for sale in Germny at the moment, unfortunately, attached to a TT.
Thales easy - double the price of a model 2, new. Hens' teeth used, I suspect. Also just a complication of a gimbal arm.
Thales easy - double the price of a model 2, new. Hens' teeth used, I suspect. Also just a complication of a gimbal arm.
You can see the CB tonearm bearing in this video at 8.20. Magnets are only used for the anti skating, nothing else. If the current distributor/agent says otherwise then that shows how much he knows...
I stopped distributing Schröder tonearms in 2008.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
In designing my tonearm I had to consider what I thought might not be ideal with other tonearm designs. It became clear to me that the bearing is crucial.
I have not heard a Schroder and I'm sure they sound fantastic, but I'm uneasy about a design which inherently allows the arm to move in the groove's time axis, even if it is by an invisibly small amount.
Of course all arms will allow some microscopic movement of the cartridge in the time axis, but I thought it an important design goal to obstruct this movement as stubbornly as is possible, hence my sideways uni-pivot design.
It seems to me that Schroder's magnetic bearing is a design which, theoretically and on a small scale, permits the arm to move in the time axis, a bit like an air supported linear tracker.
I can't speak for how such arms sound but from first principles they seem to me to be arms which concede what no arm design should.
The Well Tempered arm also allows time axis movement, but only at wow wave periods in the several second range.
I am right now ramping up production of my sideways uni-pivot tonearm, which may or may not be found more accurate than conventional and unconventional tonearms. It is designed fiercely to obstruct time-axis bearing play and flexion, which I think is the key to its dynamic and detailed presentation.
PM me if you would like to know more.
I have not heard a Schroder and I'm sure they sound fantastic, but I'm uneasy about a design which inherently allows the arm to move in the groove's time axis, even if it is by an invisibly small amount.
Of course all arms will allow some microscopic movement of the cartridge in the time axis, but I thought it an important design goal to obstruct this movement as stubbornly as is possible, hence my sideways uni-pivot design.
It seems to me that Schroder's magnetic bearing is a design which, theoretically and on a small scale, permits the arm to move in the time axis, a bit like an air supported linear tracker.
I can't speak for how such arms sound but from first principles they seem to me to be arms which concede what no arm design should.
The Well Tempered arm also allows time axis movement, but only at wow wave periods in the several second range.
I am right now ramping up production of my sideways uni-pivot tonearm, which may or may not be found more accurate than conventional and unconventional tonearms. It is designed fiercely to obstruct time-axis bearing play and flexion, which I think is the key to its dynamic and detailed presentation.
PM me if you would like to know more.
You may have the time wrong, but I watched a few minutes from 8.00 and no major comment about bearings was made. What was shown was a column with the bearings inside, no comment of any use in understanding how the bearings work, or their type, except that there are two, which does not precude one or both being unipivot in principle, restricted potentially, as in NA unipivots.
All reasonably academic as the chances of me being willing to spend more than something like £2K are very slim indeed.
@sonddek - thanks for your comments, but theory and design minutiae are not really where I am coming from. The most basic of design/build principles, ease of use and price are limiting factors for me, but how anything sounds is the final decider. More than that I do not need to know, beyond what a few reviews say, in the broadest of terms.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Yes, it is difficult to have the chance directly to compare less well-known tonearms these days.
I am planning to send out a loaner arm or two so that people can try the arm before making a decision.
Before designing my arm I was interested in comparing SME V, 4point, Reed and Graham but fat chance, so I set out to make something which I thought had the potential to be even better, theoretically.
I am planning to send out a loaner arm or two so that people can try the arm before making a decision.
Before designing my arm I was interested in comparing SME V, 4point, Reed and Graham but fat chance, so I set out to make something which I thought had the potential to be even better, theoretically.
If money is not a limitation and you are prepared to buy from wherever they come up for sale, and given months at the task, or just buy new, you can achieve a good deal in sampling "the competition". It certainly isn't a quick and simple task though.
If you could add my name to any queue for a trial of the loaners, I should be more than happy to give your arm a try. I have a Plinnked LP12 and a Hyperspace here to try it on.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Will do.
If you are looking to get anywhere near the performance of a Schröder tonearm you will need to be testing against tonearms significantly better than these...