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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VII

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eternumviti said:
Here today.

Gone tomorrow.

You seem to have missed my earlier point that Germany, which sells lots of cars to Russian oligarchs, is far cosier with Putin and Russia than we are. Even Merkel is getting a little embarassed about it.

In the meantime EU mismanagement of its affairs, which will be exacerbated by covid, is permitting Chinese political entryism into Greece, Italy, Hungary, Malta and the Balkans.
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Plenty of rich pickings in Scotland in the future which will be bought on the cheap.
 
zarniwoop said:
You have repeatedly spoken about the choice people made in 2019 when they had the opportunity to vote Labour and how that enabled the current Tory majority,
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No, I haven’t. I have mentioned repeatedly how the tories have been enabled in 4 elections in a row, while also obviously mentioning the recent election when a second referendum was on offer.

Cheers anyway. I had thought you were genuine, I made a mistake.
 
kendo said:
Brian, for a wee bit of insight into why the Scottish electorate are voting the way they do, please Google this - "what happened to scottish labour" - for a varied insight from several sources into why Scotland has rejected Scottish Labour.
A bigger puzzle for me is how Labour have singularly failed to defeat the three successive incompetent Tory governments we've endured these last 10 years. Could it be because they have been even more incompetent than that vile crew?
My own experience in rural Angus* is that Labour have NEVER been a presence in what was previously a Conservative stronghold similar to the rest of rural Scotland.
When I lived in Dundee it was a Labour stronghold at council and parliament levels. They are now seen there as having failed their previous voter base.

( * You lived here, that much may have been obvious to you, possibly.)
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Thanks Ken and I’ll read it. However, I have to say my comments are made in the context of the people who have turned their back on Labour complaining about the tories. They need to understand the consequences on the wider UK of how they vote. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not at all controversial.

I’m not a member of the Labour party, nor even an habitual Labour voter so why Scots have turned to nationalism is interesting but it doesn’t really have anything to do with my point.
 
roman said:
Spot on, I was thinking along exactly those lines. EV's esoteric Brexit has little traction. How would it have polled, maybe 20 percent? Leave needed the lies and the dark stuff to get brexit over the line.
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The separate Brexit camps were all doing their bit in different ways but they were all heading in the same positive direction. The Remain camp should have won by a massive margin, if for no other reasons than people don't like change and they play safe and they had the state tv, the BBC, in their pocket.
 
Brian said:
Thank you, but sorry, I’m familiar with this. It’s kind of obvious, you really shouldn’t listen to Hugh and Colin L.

What I’m talking about is the last decade and the trend. How many Westminster SEATS did Labour have in Scotland before nationalism reared its head, notably BEFORE the brexit vote in 2016, brexit often used by nationalists as their reason for wanting to break up the UK?

I’ll tell you.

Labour
2010 - 41
2015 - 1
2017 - 7
2019 - 1

SNP
2010 - 6
2015 - 56
2017 - 35
2019 - 48

Don’t tell me over 40 seats in Scotland is worth nothing when it comes to the hope the tories do not win a majority in the UK. All seats matter equally, they have contributed to the tories having a majority at the last 3 elections.

You may not agree with me but imo this is significant.

Please don’t do the daft thing Hugh does by launching chaff about voters in England. We all know about the responsibility of voters in England who switched to the tories to get brexit done, what I’m talking about is the contribution from elsewhere.

The main difference between those voters who switched to the tories in 2019 and those who have switched to the SNP is timing and not much else. You all switched for an agenda. In the case of Scotland and SNP supporters it is for independence from the English whatever the cost. In the case of 2019, it was for brexit whatever the cost.

It is nothing personal and nothing against Scots in general either. I would just like to see a better govt for the UK than the tory party and those seats matter. Sorry if your priority is different, but that is mine.
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Sorry, no Scottish seats are being sacrificed to bail out the idiocy described in your posts Brian. Innumeracy is a condition apparently prevalent in the Brexit demographic described in Ashcroft’s polls. Labour couldn’t even scrape together enough seats after their northern voters went Tory, to form a coalition government with the third party in Britain. Turkeys voted, it’s chop chop time.

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Colin Barron said:
The separate Brexit camps were all doing their bit in different ways but they were all heading in the same positive direction. The Remain camp should have won by a massive margin, if for no other reasons than people don't like change and they play safe and they had the state tv, the BBC, in their pocket.
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Is that the same BBC which platformed Nigel farage endlessly? (30 odd question time appearances). Even you must acknowledge that most of the press is right wing and anti EU, and has been for years. They were chipping away for years. For all the faults of the remain campaign, this was difficult to counteract.
 
TheDecameron said:
Sorry, no Scottish seats are being sacrificed to bail out the idiocy described in your posts Brian. It’s quite apparent you are innumerate ( a condition apparently prevalent in the Brexit demographic described in Ashcroft’s polls). Turkeys voted, it’s chop chop time.
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Innumerate? That’s a new insult but I’m sure you’ll come up with more. Listen Hugh, there will never be a day when I’m at all concerned about brave types like you posting insults at me over the internet. It says more about you.

Anyway, it’s clear you’re unable to fathom the value of 41 seats that used to go to Labour, so you prefer to ignore the uncomfortable truth. Voting for nationalism well before 2016 as you did isn’t a good look.
 
Sadly we have stuff all stuff left to sell. The Tories crippled our manufacturing 40 years ago and have relied on flogging taxpayers' assets ever since.
 
Colin L said:
You’re getting it all wrong tuga. It’s not the foreign money and influencers that we should blame for Brexit, not the dupes that bought the lies, not even the Tories and UKIP who have used Brexit as an excuse to introduce far-right policies. It’s the fault of the people that didn’t vote for Labour and let the Tories in. Surely you must realise that by now. o_O
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This a some dark sardonic humour...?
 
You get to see, reading this thread, how Farage, Gove and the others moved on their target audience and observed that they were ripe for the plucking. You see the same audience behaviour in the US where bewildered white pensioners in red baseball caps assert that “President Trump won the election fair and square”.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Well, there's the whole "Germany depends totally on Russia for gas especially now they've sacked off coal and nuclear" thing for starters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom_Germania

Which neither country is unlikely to want to make a mess of: Germany needs the energy and Russia needs the cash.
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But they can come here and kill people. Whenever they like! We love 'em! We love their empty flats in That London, we love them bunging Boris, and installing an agent as the PM's most trusted advisor.
They can try, but those Germans don't love the Russians like we do!
 
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