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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer II

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The racist former Labour supporters who voted for Brexit, and helped Johnson into power, are no doubt waving their St George's Cross flags and shouting "F^^^ the EU" in support of him.

Jack
Yes. There still seems a lot of support for Johnson despite his admission that the deal he himself negotiated and then promised would take back control actually gives control away, instead of opening up trade with the rest of the world restricts trade with Northern Ireland and rather than solving the problem of the Northern Ireland border makes it a whole heap worse.

To continue to support someone who by their own admission is responsible for making a deal damaging to the interests of the UK, shows the utter muddleheadedness that has informed Brexit all along
 
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Yes. There still seems a lot of support for Johnson despite his admission that the deal he promised would take back control actually gives control away, instead of opening up trade with the rest of the world restricts trade with Northern Ireland and rather than solving the problem of the Northern Ireland border makes it a whole heap worse.

To continue to support someone who by their own admission is responsible for making a deal damaging to the interests of the UK, shows the utter muddleheadedness that has informed Brexit all along
Xenaphobia trumps all.
 
I wouldn’t call Labour’s 2017 manifesto ‘revelatory’; my recollection was that it piled up a load of pledges that they knew they’d never had to stand by. As it happens the result was closer than expected.

I do believe this has a negative effect on 2019 as they then had to pile on a fair bit of icing like free broadband for all.

I completely forgot about the Ed Stone, this has to be the most disastrous election stunt in modern times; it made the Labour Party into a laughing stock.

I think all countries should have effective immigration controls & accommodate asylum seekers. Unfortunately, any & all measures get conflated & corrupted into racism. There also does seem to be a strong correlation between strict immigration controls & rampant racism.
If there’s one thing the last 6 months has shown us it’s that universal access to a high quality internet connection is a completely unnecessary luxury.
 
If there’s one thing the last 6 months has shown us it’s that universal access to a high quality internet connection is a completely unnecessary luxury.
Hindsight etc but fair point. It didn’t come across as credible at the time & that is all that mattered.
 
C4 last night was devoted to the environment, how species loss has an effect on the transmission of viruses and the part education has in our understanding of those connections.

Labour’s responses to the environment and education have been very muted. I can’t help feeling that a more positive response would’ve reaped dividends, and that Rebecca Long Bailey would’ve provided that response. But then being vocal about her expertise in education and the environment, rather than the accusation of antisemitism, was why likely why she was sacked in the first place.
 
C4 News was excellent last night. We could do with a thread on the US fires, which are just beyond belief.

PS FWIW I still feel Labour are finished and we need a major left of centre green movement to fill the void/vacuum. If there was any logic in UK politics Labour, Greens, Lib Dems and Plaid would all merge under a whole new brand such as Green Democratic Party or something. Just a sensible sellable progressive green and democratic (PR) agenda. A clear alternative to the destructive hard right-wing nationalism/fascism that is currently so dominant.
 
C4 News was excellent last night. We could do with a thread on the US fires, which are just beyond belief.

PS FWIW I still feel Labour are finished and we need a major left of centre green movement to fill the void/vacuum. If there was any logic in UK politics Labour, Greens, Lib Dems and Plaid would all merge under a whole new brand such as Green Democratic Party or something. Just a sensible sellable progressive green and democratic (PR) agenda. A clear alternative to the destructive hard right-wing nationalism/fascism that is currently so dominant.
Yes. It looks like the right wingers in the Labour Party are back in control and the again the real power that determines policy that appears aimed at appeasing the 1% first and foremost.

Agree 100% that what we need is a left of centre green coalition.
 
I’d forgotten that, and yes you are right. How I forgot it I’ve no idea as thinking back it was a reason I didn’t vote for them. Labour’s racism has run way too deep and way too long for me. It’s just not my party. Sorry.

PS I bet you did vote for them, even with that pledge, so you have little moral high-ground here! Anyway, I accept I called that wrong and apologise if my post appeared ‘ranty’. I’ve still zero time for Corbyn, obviously!
Thanks for the apology, I appreciate it.

I voted Labour, with reservations, in 2015. Given FPTP, Labour was (and remains) the only party, other than the Conservatives, capable of forming a government. A clear case of the lesser of two evils, however unsatisfactory. Likewise I would take Biden over Trump - he's rubbish and unlikely to change anything much but he's not fascist scum like Trump.
 
Is it finally time to Get Brexit Done?

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Yes, these are official Labour Party adverts on social media.
 
It will be interesting to see who was against Corbyn because they really thought he was a gammon-loving secret Brexiter, and who was just against Corbyn.
 
According to an internal email received today...“a conference held this week by the NEC (Labour’s governing body), said that Labour needs to break “the habit” of public spending”.

I haven’t been able to corroborate this email, but if true, shouldn’t it be a worry for the left, right and centre of the Labour Party?
 
According to an internal email received today...“a conference held this week by the NEC (Labour’s governing body), said that Labour needs to break “the habit” of public spending”.
This presumably can be done now that Labour has 'broken the habit' of being a left wing party, or indeed, an effective opposition party.
 
It will be interesting to see who was against Corbyn because they really thought he was a gammon-loving secret Brexiter, and who was just against Corbyn.

Indeed, that will actually prove rather interesting, though I’d have thought most who were against generally rather than just his capitulation to ethnic nationalism and xenophobia were firmly in that pro-Brexit camp. Those opposed to Brexit should still be so as it is now clearer than ever it will be a disaster for the UK, as such I’d not expect them to pull in behind this new messaging.
 
C4 News was excellent last night. We could do with a thread on the US fires, which are just beyond belief.

PS FWIW I still feel Labour are finished and we need a major left of centre green movement to fill the void/vacuum. If there was any logic in UK politics Labour, Greens, Lib Dems and Plaid would all merge under a whole new brand such as Green Democratic Party or something. Just a sensible sellable progressive green and democratic (PR) agenda. A clear alternative to the destructive hard right-wing nationalism/fascism that is currently so dominant.
You keep saying this despite the fact that Labour is still the second major party and will remain so until this mythical "new brand such as Green Democratic Party or something" appears out of the ether. Repeating your discontent about a Party you don't/would not vote for is pointless.
 
According to an internal email received today...“a conference held this week by the NEC (Labour’s governing body), said that Labour needs to break “the habit” of public spending”.

I haven’t been able to corroborate this email, but if true, shouldn’t it be a worry for the left, right and centre of the Labour Party?
It's legit. It relates to a "Labour to Win" (an amalgamation of factions on the right of the party) event last week, covered here:

https://labourlist.org/2020/09/brid...rategy-for-creating-social-democracy-of-hope/
"That means we need to be disciplined about the spending promises we make now – both about the response to the pandemic and about the next Labour government. The government spends huge amounts of money, but it doesn’t spend it all wisely and it doesn’t spend it all well".

Setting out how Labour would take a different approach to the government’s “irresponsible” one, she said “every pound spent should be spent to achieve most” and made clear that the party would “not prejudge now” what its spending plans should be at the next general election.

Confirming that Labour will be “careful” about its commitments between now and 2024, Phillipson said: “We cannot be thought of as a party whose reaction to every problem is that the answer is more spending. It’s a habit we got into, and it’s a habit we need to break".
A complete lack of political vision from these people, even after the massive upheaval of the coronavirus pandemic.
 
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