gavreid
Pretty Words...
Yes, so it would have to be in constant production - that's the dilemma I think.
Is there life on Venus?
- Thread starter gintonic
- Start date
Yes, so it would have to be in constant production - that's the dilemma I think.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
When we think of the sort of extremophile bacteria we find on Earth, it doesn’t seem all that far fetched for something to exist in the atmosphere of Venus. And it’s widely acknowledged that the most likely extraterrestrial life will be simple organisms, rather than complex or intelligent life. So it’s an intriguing possibility.
Indeed.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Given that venus was much less hostile in the past it's certainly plausible.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
AIUI, phosphene can be made by other processes that don't depend on organisms but it occurs in quantities that cannot be easily explained by spontaneous creation; its relatively short life means something is continuously producing it.
Its presence doesn't preclude non-organic processes but that process involves lots of gas and gravity, only found on gas giants ("In the 1970s, phosphine was discovered in the atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn — immensely hot gas giants. Scientists surmised that the molecule was spontaneously thrown together within the bellies of these gas giants and, as Sousa-Silva describes, “violently dredged up by huge, planet-sized convective storms.”" - Jennifer Chu, MIT, 2019 - https://news.mit.edu/2019/phosphine-aliens-stink-1218)
WRT marsh gas, it is created by the anaerobic digestion of organic material, so, even though the animals and plants may no longer be around, it is an indicator that life was present.
At 55km altitude, the atmosphere is about 20 Celsius and 1 Bar. Pretty good for life to exist. Existence in an atmosphere of sulphuric acid is tricky but not impossible.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
One theory is a cycle involving exchange with the surface, but it's speculation. Any bacteria would have to be feeding on something and that's unlikely to be present in the clouds alone
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Apart from CO2 in abundance.
https://www.newsweek.com/bacteria-absorbs-co2-has-been-discovered-bottom-pacific-ocean-1225993
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Sure - I was talking about the clouds though. The venusian atmosphere is full of CO2
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Understood but if there's bacteria that consume CO2 at the bottom of Earth's oceans, why not the (lower) atmosphere of Venus?
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
Aphrodite lives on Venus, that's obvious and "She sprang forth from the sea foam where Cronus flung his dismembered father's genitals."
Jimi Hendrix buzzed through there a few times as well.
Jack
Jimi Hendrix buzzed through there a few times as well.
Jack
gavreid
Pretty Words...
The bacteria would need trace elements apart from just CO2 and say sulphur and nitrogen, which won't be found in isolated clouds, especially if the bacteria were photosynthetic. That's why exchange with the surface is likely to be necessary somewhere in the mechanism.
Here's one postulate that involves a lower plantary 'haze'...
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1...CDLRYF1pgLxZ13hiAf1qmrjvfhvJuXs2we35ZquOE68I&
tones
Tones deaf
Necessary reading here, Arthur C. Clarke's brilliant Expedition to Earth. Clarke was clearly a student of O.Henry and his "twist in the tail" method of story telling, where the punch comes in the last line.
Correction: the story is History Lesson - the collection of short stories in which it occurs is Expedition to Earth. The collection also features The Sentinel, from which was developed 2001: a space odyssey. An outstanding collection.
Correction: the story is History Lesson - the collection of short stories in which it occurs is Expedition to Earth. The collection also features The Sentinel, from which was developed 2001: a space odyssey. An outstanding collection.
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Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
The phosphine 'gig' was a small part of one of the legendary Christmas lectures given by my sometime Chem teacher who was known unofficially as 'Dinky' Dunn. He was ably assisted by other members of the teaching staff.. and the assistants. I don't recall the method for the phosphine but I recall it bubbling up from under liquid and quietly igniting. Dinky used it as a source of ignition for numerous other tricks during the lecture.
Also on the same day he casually placed a water filled glass ampoule over a bunsen flame and covered the lot with a gauze cylinder. Naturally most of us knew what would happen.. but not when.... He then continued with other stuff as the tension rose. The resulting 'loud report' still took all of us lads by surprise, but Dinky seemed unphased.
He was quite mad....
Another trick was to put a petroleum soaked rag at the top of a piece of guttering propped against a window sill .. with a burning candle at the bottom. Descending vapour ignited and sent a flame up to the cloth., which was extinguished with CO2, but the candle wasn't.. and so on.. Many other explosions, bangs and flashes were featured.
Another spectacular one.. if I've got this right, was to throw a small beaker each of nitric acid and ammonia into a sink together. The resulting reaction sent clouds of white Ammonium Nitrate 'smoke' around the lab.
Naturally, neither pupils nor staff wore any protective gear. This was around 1963-4.
Dinky also demonstrated the explosive potential of finely divided combustible materials such as flour, coal dust etc.. He used fungal spores called 'Lycopodium Spores' (Which I have since speculated come from one or other of the 'Lycoperdon' species of puff ball. He simply blew a load of the spores through a long glass tube and over a bunsen flame. The resulting flamethrower effect removed the eyebrows of a couple of lads in the front row...
As for contact explosives. Sounds like Nitrogen Tri-Iodide. Easily made by dissolving iodine crystals in excess ammonia. The resulting brown precipitate is best kept under the ammonia until needed. We used to make the stuff and carry it around in small bottles. Then use a small wooden 'spill' to dredge a bit out and place it wherever it would cause mischief once dried. Shop door handles.. Vending machines.. wherever. We were evil little sods in our youth.
Yes. I too attended a superbly equipped school with separate junior and senior labs for Chem, Phys and Biol, plus a lecture theatre. Also fully equipped metalwork shop.. complete with forge and all blacksmithing tools, welding and brazing kit, lathes, shapers and other machine tools. Also similarly well equipped woodworking shop.
We were very lucky.
Cav
pfm Member
We used nitrogen tri-iodide to torment our History teacher. This was at grammar school in the mid to late 60s. Most of the staff were ex-Forces and had seen real conflict. Quite a few were what I call casual sadists who would twist your ear or give you a dig with a board ruler for nor reason. "Wee Tom", as we called him, was very sensitive to noise, so we regularly sprinkled the nitro on the classroom floor which snapped, crackled and popped with every step he took. It drove him mad.
On reflection, I suspect he and others were suffering from PTSD but that was not a thing in those days.
deebster
Half Man Half Biscuit
The Sky at Night programme from last night was all about this and was a good watch IMO.
If I have remembered this correctly it was said that Phosphine can be created without the need for life but in quantities around 10,000 times smaller than they have identified.
I liked the lady who led this - a little quirky but funny. Not so much the guy with the guitar though.
If I have remembered this correctly it was said that Phosphine can be created without the need for life but in quantities around 10,000 times smaller than they have identified.
I liked the lady who led this - a little quirky but funny. Not so much the guy with the guitar though.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
me too in the 1970s. Our Chemistry teacher with the name of "Dr Billy Bumrub" taught us how to make novichok.
Our chemistry teacher was Mr Roger Moore.....
martin clark
pinko bodger
I similarly went to a school in early-mid -80s comparably-well equipped (and mercifully, with the calibre of staff to exploit it - mostly*). In between studies, a lot of fun was had...
I say '*mostly' owing only to the hapless dep.head ( M Jackson, iirc) who, once a physics teacher too long out of the classroom, was an utter delight because whenever he stood-in of the (excellent! ) fizzics bod Phil Harper - things would go wrong , in a hurry, in exciting ways, while he tried to explain it was not what he quite intended. So much so, these were keenly-anticipated occasions across the school.
Vacuum/ pressure apparatus - always too large a pump selected / undersized everything else, expect an im/explosion; there will be arcs and sparks that are wholly unintentional, and derail the point wonderfully. Expect to duck once in a while; that sort of thing - obvious even as a 12-13yrold.
We actually lived through various unintended detonations, runaways, and one of the most memorable(?!) experiences - using latent heat of evaporation to achieve refrigeration: which didn't actually freeze the large pyrex jug to the wet board underneath it, but the 150-200ml of evaporated Ether ** certainly put most of the first row to sleep and the rest of small class fall-off-stool dizzy in under 5mins. How about opening the windows, or using the vacuum hood... I actually don't recall how that 'lesson' ended.
** yeah, again, that huge 1/2hp pump lead to a pipette as nozzle at first. well that went pop, and sprayed the first 50m;l or so directly on us. Second attempt with larger bore... mmm, what was the point again...?