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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer II

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I liked Ed. To be honest I suspect his issue was a) he’s a geek (a good thing obviously) and b) he has a bit of a speech impediment. Sadly that’s enough to be crucified by the UK right-wing press.

He always struck me as an intelligent, decent and genuine bloke with a great sense of humour. I preferred him to his brother, but he was never going to get beyond the aforementioned stumbling blocks. Basically the Tories can lie to the Queen, break parliamentary and international law, and divert hundreds of £millions into their/their donors pockets in actions of staggeringly blatant corruption, even send black folk who have lived here for decades away to die abroad, but Ed Milliband can’t eat a sandwich properly, so he was done for...

He had way, way more spine and integrity than Corbyn.
He didn't though did he? Ed Milliband capitulated to the right of the PLP and ran on a muddled manifesto that pleased nobody.

Through sheer bloody-mindedness (he's a stubborn old goat) Corbyn stuck to his guns and Labour ran on a revelatory manifesto in 2017. It instantly put renationalisation and a host of other sound social-democratic policies back on the political agenda.

I like Milliband too. He's an intelligent, principled guy but sadly for him (and for us) he lacked the courage of his convictions.
 
Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism, he stood up and was counted. I’ll never forgive Corbyn for just sitting back and waiving the Farages, Yaxley Lennons, Hoeys, Manns, Rees Moggs, Johnsons etc through. Worst Labour leader of my lifetime despite a perfectly reasonable 2017 manifesto.

PS The point I’m trying to make is today, finally, we actually saw some opposition from Labour. Corbyn was too feckless and conflicted, Starmer seems too cautious and measured, yet Miliband actually got up and finally did the job his party should have been doing for a decade now. That is what I want to see. No fence, no focus groups, no “triangulation”, just understand what is right and what is wrong and bloody say it.
 
Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism, he stood up and was counted. I’ll never forgive Corbyn for just sitting back and waiving the Farages, Yaxley Lennons, Hoeys, Manns, Rees Moggs, Johnsons etc through. Worst Labour leader of my lifetime despite a perfectly reasonable 2017 manifesto.

PS The point I’m trying to make is today, finally, we actually saw some opposition from Labour. Corbyn was too feckless and conflicted, Starmer seems too cautious and measured, yet Miliband actually got up and finally did the job his party should have been doing for a decade now. That is what I want to see. No fence, no focus groups, no “triangulation”, just understand what is right and what is wrong and bloody say it.
Balls. You seem to have forgotten the waving through of the 2015 Immigration Bill and the 2012 Welfare Reform Bill (guess who took a stand on those?) to say nothing of the racist mugs. Poor Ed was very easily manipulated by the total sh-theads that surrounded him and now surround Starmer.
 
Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism, he stood up and was counted. I’ll never forgive Corbyn for just sitting back and waiving the Farages, Yaxley Lennons, Hoeys, Manns, Rees Moggs, Johnsons etc through. Worst Labour leader of my lifetime despite a perfectly reasonable 2017 manifesto.

PS The point I’m trying to make is today, finally, we actually saw some opposition from Labour. Corbyn was too feckless and conflicted, Starmer seems too cautious and measured, yet Miliband actually got up and finally did the job his party should have been doing for a decade now. That is what I want to see. No fence, no focus groups, no “triangulation”, just understand what is right and what is wrong and bloody say it.
I agree Milliband was good today; better than Corbyn and Starmer. He's a good performer in the HoC. Which is nice, I suppose.

However, you're completely wrong about him never capitulating to ethnic nationalism and xenophobia (see Sean's post).
 
I agree Milliband was good today; better than Corbyn and Starmer. He's a good performer in the HoC. Which is nice, I suppose.

However, you're completely wrong about him never capitulating to ethnic nationalism and xenophobia (see Sean's post).
You hear a lot of this. I understand the need to see Corbyn as gammon but I don’t get why his predecessors, who actually did pull some hideously racist stuff, have to be whitewashed.

Any minute now I’m gonna have to pull out that Jon Stone thread listing all the heinous things New Labour did.
 
You hear a lot of this. I understand the need to see Corbyn as gammon but I don’t get why his predecessors, who actually did pull some hideously racist stuff, have to be whitewashed.

I’m whitewashing nothing. Remember I live pretty near to what was that racist/Islamophobe gammon Phil Woolas‘s seat! I saw Labour’s racism up fairly close as well as its trough-feeding and corruption. I’m not a Labour voter as to be frank they are just way, way too shit for me to vote for in good conscience, but what you saw from Ed Miliband today is exactly what is needed to rebuild and move forward. It is referred to as ‘opposition’, and is something that has been entirely missing in action for far too long. That Ed Miliband, a leader widely viewed as ineffectual and compromised, can crucify Johnson in a way neither Corbyn nor Starmer ever got even remotely close in ages of trying has to highlight the core failures within the party. As such I’d be inclined to reflect and learn from it rather than simply dig the hole deeper defending a loser like Corbyn!
 
I’m whitewashing nothing. Remember I live pretty near to what was that racist/Islamophobe gammon Phil Woolas‘s seat! I saw Labour’s racism up fairly close as well as its trough-feedung and corruption. I’m not a Labour voter as to be frank they are just way, way too shit for me to vote for in good conscience, but what you saw from Ed Miliband today is exactly what is needed to rebuild and move forward. It is referred to as ‘opposition’, and is something that has been entirely missing in action for far too long. That Ed Miliband, a leader widely viewed as ineffectual and compromised, can crucify Johnson in a way neither Corbyn nor Starmer ever got even remotely close in ages of trying has to highlight the core failures within the party. As such I’d be inclined to reflect and learn from it rather than simply dig the hole deeper defending a total loser like Corbyn!
I’m learning a fair bit from the responses to it!
 
I’m whitewashing nothing. Remember I live pretty near to what was that racist/Islamophobe gammon Phil Woolas‘s seat! I saw Labour’s racism up fairly close as well as its trough-feedung and corruption. I’m not a Labour voter as to be frank they are just way, way too shit for me to vote for in good conscience, but what you saw from Ed Miliband today is exactly what is needed to rebuild and move forward. It is referred to as ‘opposition’, and is something that has been entirely missing in action for far too long. That Ed Miliband, a leader widely viewed as ineffectual and compromised, can crucify Johnson in a way neither Corbyn nor Starmer ever got even remotely close in ages of trying has to highlight the core failures within the party. As such I’d be inclined to reflect and learn from it rather than simply dig the hole deeper defending a total loser like Corbyn!
I complimented Milliband's performance today and expressed regret that he didn't show the same spirit when he was leader.

You replied with a bad-tempered, sweary rant that contained factual errors.

In particular you claimed that "Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism". This is demonstrably false: his manifesto was full of the "legitimate concern" favoured by both the Labour right, and Farage (in the days when he tried to hide his fascism). Here's the manifesto:

https://action.labour.org.uk/page/-/A4 BIG _PRINT_ENG_LABOUR MANIFESTO_TEXT LAYOUT.pdf

Try searching it for the word "immigration" and then tell me again that "Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism". Frankly, only a mug would say that:

Immigration-mug-square1-300x300.jpg


He even carved it in tablets of stone:

ed-stone-hastings.jpg


Wonder what happened to the Edstone? Must be worth a fortune now.
 
I’d forgotten that, and yes you are right. How I forgot it I’ve no idea as thinking back it was a reason I didn’t vote for them. Labour’s racism has run way too deep and way too long for me. It’s just not my party. Sorry.

PS I bet you did vote for them, even with that pledge, so you have little moral high-ground here! Anyway, I accept I called that wrong and apologise if my post appeared ‘ranty’. I’ve still zero time for Corbyn, obviously!
 
I'm not saying we'd be in great shape if Ed Milliband had formed a government in 2015 with a manifesto he really believed in, but we would have been spared Theresa May's coalition of chaos, and Boris Johnson's amoral kleptocracy.

yes, there is some learning in that for many of us. Myself included. I could never have imagined back then how bad things would get under the Tories. (I abstained from voting in 2015, btw).
 
It’s not him with the symptoms, he’s self-isolating as a member of his household has symptoms and has been tested. I did wonder why Ed Miliband was on Today, this morning. That may explain it.

Yes we caught Ed Miliband on Today yesterday morning and he came across well, certainly better than when he was leader.
 
I complimented Milliband's performance today and expressed regret that he didn't show the same spirit when he was leader.

You replied with a bad-tempered, sweary rant that contained factual errors.

In particular you claimed that "Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism". This is demonstrably false: his manifesto was full of the "legitimate concern" favoured by both the Labour right, and Farage (in the days when he tried to hide his fascism). Here's the manifesto:

https://action.labour.org.uk/page/-/A4 BIG _PRINT_ENG_LABOUR MANIFESTO_TEXT LAYOUT.pdf

Try searching it for the word "immigration" and then tell me again that "Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism". Frankly, only a mug would say that:

Immigration-mug-square1-300x300.jpg


He even carved it in tablets of stone:

ed-stone-hastings.jpg


Wonder what happened to the Edstone? Must be worth a fortune now.

Great pictures but are we conflating asylum seekers and immigration controls. Surely just about every country in the world has some kind of controls in place for the latter hence the well established need for a passport to cross international borders so Ed could stand in front of a stone with this message on in good conscience.
 
I wouldn’t call Labour’s 2017 manifesto ‘revelatory’; my recollection was that it piled up a load of pledges that they knew they’d never had to stand by. As it happens the result was closer than expected.

I do believe this has a negative effect on 2019 as they then had to pile on a fair bit of icing like free broadband for all.

I completely forgot about the Ed Stone, this has to be the most disastrous election stunt in modern times; it made the Labour Party into a laughing stock.

I think all countries should have effective immigration controls & accommodate asylum seekers. Unfortunately, any & all measures get conflated & corrupted into racism. There also does seem to be a strong correlation between strict immigration controls & rampant racism.
 
I’d forgotten that, and yes you are right. How I forgot it I’ve no idea as thinking back it was a reason I didn’t vote for them. Labour’s racism has run way too deep and way too long for me. It’s just not my party. Sorry.

The racist former Labour supporters who voted for Brexit, and helped Johnson into power, are no doubt waving their St George's Cross flags and shouting "F^^^ the EU" in support of him.

Jack
 
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