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High end streamers, waste of money or not, please?

I have two concerns about Roon:
Lifetime licences don't mix with a service that needs constant server availability and metadata curation
They know everything about your music collection and usage, the temptation is to sell this information
 
davidsrsb said:
I have two concerns about Roon:
Lifetime licences don't mix with a service that needs constant server availability and metadata curation
They know everything about your music collection and usage, the temptation is to sell this information
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Look at it this way, even if they go bust eventually, after 5 years you’ve had you’re money’s worth. And if they do go bust they’ll release a final version which you can use for the future too.
 
davidsrsb said:
I have two concerns about Roon:
Lifetime licences don't mix with a service that needs constant server availability and metadata curation
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Sorry, i don't get that, why would the licence type make a difference?

davidsrsb said:
They know everything about your music collection and usage, the temptation is to sell this information
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What have they got to sell and again why would the licence type make a difference?
 
Cereal Killer said:
Sorry, i don't get that, why would the licence type make a difference?
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Roon connects to a database on their servers. Running this and fixing metadata requires a recurring income. Up front lifetime payments are a way for the money to be lifted out and then they can walk away. A monthly or annual fee is a better way to fund a service like this

Cereal Killer said:
What have they got to sell and again why would the licence type make a difference?
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nothing to do with licence type. The way that Roon works, they must communicate details of your local library to their servers. This means that they can track your collection, legality and what you actually listen to
 
Do you go to the Roon forum much?
There’s talk from roon that the lifetime offer will end soon enough.

As far as Roon looking into your library database, that’s a none issue IMHO, you should see what chrome, windows and iOS does with cookies.....
 
sunbeamgls said:
Not necessarily. Its about the musical capability of the devices, not their price.
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Those of us old enough to remember when Linn only sold turntables, arms and cartridges, will also remember Ivor Tiefenbrun's mantra that the source was the key to good sound. He advocated spending a a large part of your budget on the source.
 
sunbeamgls said:
Not necessarily. Its about the musical capability of the devices, not their price.
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To be totally correct I must point out that between my RPi and my DAC there is a USB isolator and a USB hub (that is also the PSU for the Pi) - these may have some positive influence, I suppose.
 
Woodface said:
With a streamer the source is actually the hi res file or service really? Or the Dac?
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Good question. I’d say the source is the DAC, because the DAC produces the initial analogue signal, and thus is the first stage that can lose information. Whatever the preceding digital chain is, it is essentially lossless.
 
AndyU said:
Good question. I’d say the source is the DAC, because the DAC produces the initial analogue signal, and thus is the first stage that can lose information. Whatever the preceding digital chain is, it is essentially lossless.
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On balance I agree.

Ivor’s maxim is still valid on some level ;)
 
AndyU said:
Whatever the preceding digital chain is, it is essentially lossless.
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I suppose the only proviso is that transfer of the digital signal between stages does not cause any problems. If the DAC is sensitive to noise on the input that affects the output, the question then arises, is the streamer at fault for being noisy or the DAC at fault for not being able to handle it.
 
cctaylor said:
I suppose the only proviso is that transfer of the digital signal between stages does not cause any problems. If the DAC is sensitive to noise on the input that affects the output, the question then arises, is the streamer at fault for being noisy or the DAC at fault for not being able to handle it.
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There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Bluesound (when I had it) was degrading the sound (particularly the bass) and that was via, most noticeably, coax out and to a slightly lesser extent optical out.
As soon as I changed to a Innuos (USB out only) into the same dac the sound cleaned up considerably with much tighter bass, near silent backgrond etc. - and this was into a Rega Dac R which was heavily criticised in one review for its USB input implementation.
 
webster said:
Bluesound (when I had it) was degrading the sound (particularly the bass) and that was via, most noticeably, coax out
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+1

I had almost the same experience with BS Node 2i. Cocktail Audio N15D aka Novafidelity in UK as streamer/transport into same price range has a superior coax output using with external dac, in every sound aspect.
 
Until people agree not to mix their drinks and decide if a "streamer" has a DAC built in or not these debates will always be pointless and circular. So, for me it does, other wise it's just a "transport" or NIC. As for Linn, why people use them as a point to pitch against, by-passing it's DAC in a "comparison" beats the hell out of me.
You buy a Linn Streamer, because of the DAC onboard and how it sounds as package. if you don't like that sound, buy something else. In that context a High End streamer is worth it. Not heard any other digital source/Dac that is as organic and natural and effortless as Klimax DS. But then they have been doing for over 12 years now and still people don't understand or get it.........
 
cctaylor said:
Those of us old enough to remember when Linn only sold turntables, arms and cartridges, will also remember Ivor Tiefenbrun's mantra that the source was the key to good sound. He advocated spending a a large part of your budget on the source.
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I have the jaundiced view...
Er... precisely because he only sold turntables and wanted as much of the pie as possible!
 
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