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Speakers on laminate flooring

S

say it as it is

pfm Member
ok what is the consensus on using speakers on a laminate floor?

I tried spikes with alloy cups ,very fiddley and wasn't taken by the sound the bass could get
boomy

i switched to Atacama gel cups and they seem to have helped a lot

I am now considering different speakers and seen a couple with downward firing bass units, for this I presume would cause issue with my springy floor?

so been considering options

I have heard about using paving slabs under each speaker not the best to look at tho

i was thinking a nice chunk of oak or similar aesthetically wood under each speaker about and inch or 2 thick

or what about a heavy chopping board or butcher block?

other brainstorm was slate or granite either an off cut or a large chopping board.

anyone tried this to cure crap suspended flooring with laminate?

cheers
 
If the speakers are exciting the floor from direct coupling (presuming that's the cause of boominess, rather than a room mode, although you could have both) then some sort of isolation cushioning.
 
Go for the paving slabs, even two, one on top of the other - cost would be peanuts, and see what you think.

If that works, you could then look at something more acceptable to SWMBO. Maybe a couple of polished, small, square gravestones ;)
 
Gravestones....priceless!
Is it a suspended floor underneath the laminate or solid concrete?
Laminate floors are a floating floor.
I always install them with a good soundproofing underlay.
How bouncy is the floor?
 
Curtis said:
Gravestones....priceless!
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I doubt that anyone is going to sell you polished, thick granite slabs cheaper than a monumental mason when all you need is offcuts or otherwise dud pieces. Just don't get an inscription (or at least only on the underside).
 
Tried superspikes?

https://hifipig.com/soundcare-superspikes/

a good investment I think as they can go from speaker to speaker as you change. If have these under ns1000XW and all equipment stands on a parquet floor, and the beauty is that you can slide things about the floor (with a slight lift) and you get no marks or scratching. Makes speaker positioning a doddle.
 
Rug Doc said:
Tried superspikes?
Click to expand...

Can somebody explain this type of system - "spike into a cup"? They just ensure absolute coupling to whatever is under them, in this case, the floor. Whatever the floor does, your kit will do. They do no more than the equivalent of a solid foot, or suchlike, to your kit, the fact that there is a spike in there counts for nought.
 
Vinny said:
Can somebody explain this type of system - "spike into a cup"? They just ensure absolute coupling to whatever is under them, in this case, the floor. Whatever the floor does, your kit will do. They do no more than the equivalent of a solid foot, or suchlike, to your kit, the fact that there is a spike in there counts for nought.
Click to expand...

The unit is coupled to the floor indeed, but the way it works inside is that the tiniest point is the only contact point onto the base cup. The pressure on these points would be huge, so when levelled correctly with no movement, the speaker is unable to move and then transfer its cabinet vibration into the floor...

These hold the cabinet dead still so any driver movement is not transferred to the cabinet.... If the cabinet doesn’t vibrate then there’s zero transfer of this vibration to the surroundings through the stands, then through the spikes and back into the room. The only airborne vibrations which are the ones we want! The trick with all speakers’ connection to the floor is to get it level and tight as it can be with the spike bolts.. any movement here and the benefit of the spikes is totally lost.

It’s weird, because ‘isolation’ is bandied about with reference to spikes, but their intention is not isolation, but rather to decouple from the surroundings.. the very small surface area of contact means that the least sound is transferred. (You ever tried sending a 30hz soundwave through a pin?!)
 
Rug Doc said:
The unit is coupled to the floor indeed, but the way it works inside is that the tiniest point is the only contact point onto the base cup. The pressure on these points would be huge, so when levelled correctly with no movement, the speaker is unable to move and then transfer its cabinet vibration into the floor...

These hold the cabinet dead still so any driver movement is not transferred to the cabinet.... If the cabinet doesn’t vibrate then there’s zero transfer of this vibration to surroundings, only airborne vibrations which are the ones we want!
Click to expand...

Go through the logic of that again. Substitute the whole of that gizmo with a solid lump of metal.
 
I’ll expand on this a bit more.. The spike does two things..

1, firstly, it holds the cabinet very firmly when properly setup. This wipes out pistonic cabinet vibrations.

2, then secondly the very small ‘spiked’ contact area of the spike allows the least sound transfer, ie vibrations to the floor..

so when 1 and 2 are in play you have very good ‘de-coupling’ of the speaker from the floor.

Let’s take the spikes out and replace with your lump of metal... this then does two things..

1, doesn’t stop cabinet movement as well, as the ability to eliminate cabinet movement is far harder. So the cabinets are moving with the drivers,

2, which in turn then vibrates the floor as the coupling to the floor with a solid food is exactly that, basically coupled to it, so what the cabinet does is then amplified by the floor.

Two very different scenarios, hth. :)
 
Rug Doc said:
I’ll expand on this a bit more.. The spike does two things..

1, firstly, it holds the cabinet very firmly when properly setup. This wipes out pistonic cabinet vibrations.

2, then secondly the very small ‘spiked’ contact area of the spike allows the least sound transfer, ie vibrations to the floor..

so when 1 and 2 are in play you have very good ‘de-coupling’ of the speaker from the floor.
Click to expand...
No, point 1 is correct, point 2 isn't. A solid spike allows very good energy and vibration transfer. For proof, take a solid steel spike in the form of a nail, put it on a piece of wood and hit it with a hammer. If you still think that the energy, vibrations if you will, are not transferred, try it again on your leg. Have a first aid kit to hand.

Things that decouple are soft and spongy, and often have air gaps. That's why you don't put a foam pad on a nail head before you hit it.
 
Rug Doc said:
The unit is coupled to the floor indeed, but the way it works inside is that the tiniest point is the only contact point onto the base cup. The pressure on these points would be huge, so when levelled correctly with no movement, the speaker is unable to move and then transfer its cabinet vibration into the floor...
)
Click to expand...
A speaker doesn't have to move to transmit vibration. Look at a Newton's cradle, the balls in the middle don't move but the vibrations and energy still pass through, even through the very small contact area between the spheres. You can even see that ALL the energy passes through, because the balls on the other side go to the same height and there are the same number of them bouncing back up. Put something soft in the middle of a Newton's Cradle and see what happens.
 
I might then be wrong and am myself getting coupling and de coupling confused! Oh ffs..

edit - ok, so spikes ‘couple’ to the floor which in the case of a laminate floating floor is not what you want to do - you need to decouple!

“Coupling transfers the movement of an object into an object of larger mass” so coupling into a concrete floor is ideal.

On a wooden floor or laminate as here, you want to ‘decouple’ so the cabinet doesn’t transfer its energy to the floor, so you need to look at what Townshend supports ideally?

... So the advice to put concrete slabs down and/or granite blocks and then use spikes are in fact wrong? (As this is coupling) OR is it the actual ‘mass’ of the block itself that the spikes are coupled to going to dissipate the vibrations?

... What about a slab with a piece of underlay underneath it? - Coupling into the slab with a higher mass to dissipate the vibrations, then the underlay decoupling the whole lot from the floor???(!)
 
I think you now have it. There are essentially 2 approaches, to nail something rigidly to something solid and massive, or to absorb the energy via something soft. The first relies on mass to absorb energy, the second relies on absorbing it by moving something compliant.
 
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