thebigfredc
pfm Member
Ice cream, coffee, beaches, history, art, barbers too
An example: in Israel 85% of the population hates the religious parties, but since they can make or break a coalition, legislation that 85% of the population wants, but is not wanted by the religious minority, is never passed. Italy has a desperate need for radical reforms. It has the slowest legal system in the world, rampant corruption, a mind-numbingly complex bureacracy and tax system. But despite decades of talk, billions of words, nothing effective has ever been done. And let us not forget that it was PR that brought Hitler and Mussolini to power.
Sorry, I knew I was treading on someone’s toes but couldn’t remember who. And I couldn’t find the pfm cartoon search facility.Damn you, that's my line. Beaten to it grumble grumble.....
Outside of PR we need to move Parliament away from London, preferably Birmingham. I don’t want a fancy new building, MPs should be able to cope with a modern serviced office with decent conference facilities.
Yes. The UK prides itself on being the father of modern democracy, so it is now time to bring up modern democracy v2.0A good case could be made for decentralising it entirely and carrying speeches, votes, questions etc electronically. Covid 19 has removed much of the embarrassingly archaic posh school kid baying and jeering from the HoC and that is has improved things hugely IMO. Why not go the whole hog and get MPs working from regional bases and actually behaving like adults? PR would over time render the ‘government’ and ‘opposition’ benches irrelevant anyway, so might as well just redesign the whole thing from the ground-up. An opportunity to get rid of all the historic pomp, ‘black rod’ and monarchy bullshit too. A truly representative democracy, a proper constitution, and a bill of rights would help drag this obsolete backward-looking country kicking and screaming into the modern age.
Agree with all of that. The pomp & ceremony around the Palace of Westminster is inherently self harming.A good case could be made for decentralising it entirely and carrying speeches, votes, questions etc electronically. Covid 19 has removed much of the embarrassingly archaic posh school kid baying and jeering from the HoC and that is has improved things hugely IMO. Why not go the whole hog and get MPs working from regional bases and actually behaving like adults? PR would over time render the ‘government’ and ‘opposition’ benches irrelevant anyway, so might as well just redesign the whole thing from the ground-up. An opportunity to get rid of all the historic pomp, ‘black rod’ and monarchy bullshit too. A truly representative democracy, a proper constitution, and a bill of rights would help drag this obsolete backward-looking country kicking and screaming into the modern age.
If Parliament used the sort of electronic voting that is used for audience polling in those Saturday night TV talent shows, you could do it in seconds.Yes, I totally degree with getting Parliament out of London and the use of electronic voting. One of the things that struck me watching the endless Brexit debates was how long voting on a series of amendments took. Literally an entire evening was taken up with voting that could have been done in half an hour. A complete joke.
The pomp & ceremony around the Palace of Westminster is inherently self harming.
I just want a sensible government which uses the tax system fairly & gives its citizens a fair opportunity. In return I would like to see people behave in a broadly collegiate way as opposed to the sheer self interest we have at the moment.Absolutely. It just drags everything right back to the archaic class-warrior swamp from which both dinosaur parties emerged. The country needs to move forward, the overwhelming majority of us are neither landed gentry nor lumpen proletariat and politics rooted in those concepts is largely obsolete.
We need political representation that is both relevant in a high-tech fully global marketplace and a world rapidly approaching a climate/environmental catastrophe. Everything we have at present just seems to tired, old and backward-facing. I don’t feel represented politically at all. FWIW I suspect internet-based micro-businesses are actually the main growth area in employment at present, there are countless people setting themselves up doing their own thing, so politics really needs to catch the hell up with us! Looking at the HoC/HoC just feels like a window into ancient history. It is tedious and embarrassing. Kill it now!
Erm.....beer and sandwiches at no.10, the winter of discontent and Dennis Healey going begging to the IMF.....at least we used to win the Eurovision Song Contest.
I can see you don’t like the comment but eye rolling is not really a good substitute for saying why it’s not a valid comparison.
The ‘beer & sandwiches’ description is something of a right wing trope.All wonderful compared to Adolf Thatcher!
The Italians know their political system has problems, but unlike the UK, it's not trying to deny there's a problem. The Italian electoral system was completely reformed on the late 1990s to prevent opportunistic forcing of general elections, the tax code has been simplified and shifted away from labour towards consumption over the same period, tax evasion is reducing albeit still high, and the country has been steadily improving in Transparency International's Corruption Index for the last two decades. Italy's big problems are a lack of trust in politicians as an entire class, a position that England is drifting towards..Italy has a desperate need for radical reforms. It has the slowest legal system in the world, rampant corruption, a mind-numbingly complex bureacracy and tax system. But despite decades of talk, billions of words, nothing effective has ever been done
As Mussolini overthrew the elected government of Italy through a campaign of violence and intimidation, it wouldn't really have mattered how that government had been elected.And let us not forget that it was PR that brought Hitler and Mussolini to power.
The Italians know their political system has problems, but unlike the UK, it's not trying to deny there's a problem. The Italian electoral system was completely reformed on the late 1990s to prevent opportunistic forcing of general elections, the tax code has been simplified and shifted away from labour towards consumption over the same period, tax evasion is reducing albeit still high, and the country has been steadily improving in Transparency International's Corruption Index for the last two decades. Italy's big problems are a lack of trust in politicians as an entire class, a position that England is drifting towards..
As Mussolini overthrew the elected government of Italy through a campaign of violence and intimidation, it wouldn't really have mattered how that government had been elected.
Adolf Hitler won 37.2% of the vote in the first of two elections in 1933, and yet couldn't take control, forcing a second election. 37. 2% is a bigger share than the 36.9% David Cameron got in 2015 to become the unopposed leader of the UK.. So explain to me how PR caused the Third Reich again?
...Do you not notice that almost every day a group of politicians/businessmen/wideboys is arrested for corruption involving state institutions?..
@PaulMB that's an interesting retelling of how Mussolini came to power. Il Duce himself couldn't have spun it better.
But any comment on why at least one UK Prime minister has been appointed on a vote-share less than Hitler achieved, and was unable to lead a government with? If your argument is that PR enabled Hitler, bad news: FPTP would have given him a majority in 1933.
Regarding Italy in general, I have Italian friends (Toscana and Napoli, so not just one end), and I go by what they say about their own country. It's interesting how you see arrests for corruption while maintaining that corruption is rampant and unpunished. Time was, those guys never got near being arrested, and if you know recent Italian history, you know that.