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Edward Colston: Bristol slave trader statue 'was an affront'

But it is a fascinating debate. Germany took down all the statues of Hitler. Stalin has disappeared in eastern Europe. Statues of Mussolini were pulled down after the war. Yet all three were part of their country's history. Queen Victoria is still around, although under her reign millions of people were subject to the Pax Britannica, and one can discuss forever if, and when and where, this was good or bad for the people involved. Many white Americans became rich building cheap housing for black Americans, producing ghettoes of cheap labour for what Eldridge Cleaver described as "domestic colonialism." And all over the world children were forced to work like slaves in mines and factories or on farms. Where can one draw the line, I wonder.
Actually, Hitler didn't like, and actively discouraged, statues of himself being erected, in favour of grand monuments to the Aryan race and their achievements. These can pose more of a problem - due to the absence of direct representation, the argument for their removal can be less compelling. Places like the Munich Olympic Stadium and the Manila Film Center, to me, are far more effective memorials to despots, as they will persist out of utility.

I also don't see Valle de Los Caidos disappearing any time soon, which remains the most terrifying monument to political hubris I have ever seen, nor do I think it should. But what I think doesn't matter.
 
Actually, Hitler didn't like, and actively discouraged, statues of himself being erected, in favour of grand monuments to the Aryan race and their achievements. These can pose more of a problem - due to the absence of direct representation, the argument for their removal can be less compelling. Places like the Munich Olympic Stadium and the Manila Film Center, to me, are far more effective memorials to despots, as they will persist out of utility.

I also don't see Valle de Los Caidos disappearing any time soon, which remains the most terrifying monument to political hubris I have ever seen, nor do I think it should. But what I think doesn't matter.
I have found many Italians to be ambivalent about Mussolini. I sometimes amuse myself by asking taxi drivers "who built this wonderful road/tunnel/building?" - knowing full well who it was - and seeing what reaction I get.
 
Actually, Hitler didn't like, and actively discouraged, statues of himself being erected, in favour of grand monuments to the Aryan race and their achievements. These can pose more of a problem - due to the absence of direct representation, the argument for their removal can be less compelling. Places like the Munich Olympic Stadium and the Manila Film Center, to me, are far more effective memorials to despots, as they will persist out of utility.

I also don't see Valle de Los Caidos disappearing any time soon, which remains the most terrifying monument to political hubris I have ever seen, nor do I think it should. But what I think doesn't matter.
To your last example- the solution there was a simple one- the disinterment of one set of remains and removal to a provincial cemetery so that the little fascist salute family gatherings can take place elsewhere now. We just had a very successful anti-racism rally in Edinburgh at the foot of the most contentious statue in the city, addressed by Irvine Welsh. Twenty football casuals describing themselves as “British Patriots” turned up to boo. They actually looked like they’d have trouble spelling statue.

Fascism- it can be a day out and an instagram moment-
7ULDISF.jpg
 
The statues thing is a harmless symbolic gesture but it does illustrate how pp are resistant to material change. If you’re pissed off over toppling statues just wait ‘til you see what really needs to be toppled. Then you’re really going to lose your shit, comrade.

It’s not like the completely rational sanity of endless growth and prosperity predicated on rapid exploitation & consumption of finite resources propped up by trillion dollar corporate bailouts 1,2,3 & 4 never to be seen again are working too good for us all right now.
What it illustrates is that some people are dumb.

When are you going to get out there to lead the charge at toppling what really needs to be toppled?
 
To your last example- the solution there was a simple one- the disinterment of one set of remains and removal to a provincial cemetery so that the little fascist salute family gatherings can take place elsewhere now......

Interestingly (to me at least) the body of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, founder of the Falange Española, originally interred alongside Franco, has been left in place. According to contemporary accounts the two disliked each other intensely, and by refusing to do a deal with the Republican Government who were holding Jose Antonio prisoner, Franco effectively ensured his execution.
 
When are you going to get out there to lead the charge at toppling what really needs to be toppled?

Not a charge leader, might loiter around an ssh_tunnel, fiddling with some ports though. I’m not a proper activist.

What’s your choice of weapon against the fash, comrade? A nice cup of tea? is it one lump of impotent moral indignation or two?
 
Not a charge leader, might loiter around an ssh_tunnel, fiddling with some ports though.
What’s your choice of weapon against the fash, comrade? A nice cup of tea? is it one lump of impotent moral indignation or two?
Comrade?

Impotent moral indignation? That's you.

As I said, when are you going to be out there, actually doing something other than hammer that keyboard?
 
Hammer?
Hammer?
Tsk, I am reliably informed by people that do such things that everything is scripted now.
I didn't think you'd be on your way out by now, actually doing something. Not a chance when you have so much to shout about instead.
 
Okay, so I take it that’s two lumps of impotent moral indignation. Please help yourself to the tray of in-denial white pride cucumber sandwiches.
 
I think it's probably more enlightened to append a statue with a plaque of misdeeds than throw it in the drink, but as a white geezer, I also think that what I think is not germane to the discussion - in the same way that I think women have the right to decide if trans people can stay in women's refuges. It is literally none of my ****ing business.

I do like to see a bit of agit from young people though. It gives me hope for the future.
William Armstrong showed he was not a racist or pro or anti slavery by selling guns to both sides in the American civil war. I am not aware of his opinion of trans people in womans refuges, i think they were called work houses in those days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Armstrong,_1st_Baron_Armstrong
 
William Armstrong showed he was not a racist or pro or anti slavery by selling guns to both sides in the American civil war. I am not aware of his opinion of trans people in womans refuges, i think they were called work houses in those days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Armstrong,_1st_Baron_Armstrong
I think you should tell the university student club running the poll on whether to rename their building, because they are the only ones showing the slightest interest.
 


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