Guitar talk: acoustic, bass, classical, twelve string? You name it! Pt II

[matthewr]

The thing I don’t understand about blues is where all the polished, pristine, virtuoso stuff even comes from?! The ‘classic’ stuff (Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Sister Rosetta Tharpe etc) was all wonderfully raw, edgy and to the point. This is the stuff I think of when the word ‘blues’ is mentioned.

I think the bit that makes the great stuff, great is separate from technique, so you can be an average technician or a virtuoso and still have "it". Where it goes wrong is when people try to overcome their lack of "it" by becoming a virtuoso and then get famous because of their dazzling chops.

 

[matthewr]

Here's a new to me player I got from (I think) Rhett Shull recently. This is awesome, but also slightly shambolic and although he was an interesting and unusual guitarist he is in no way a virtuoso.

 

[Nickargenta]

The thing I don’t understand about blues is where all the polished, pristine, virtuoso stuff even comes from?! The ‘classic’ stuff (Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Sister Rosetta Tharpe etc) was all wonderfully raw, edgy and to the point. This is the stuff I think of when the word ‘blues’ is mentioned.

My guess is that many of the current generation of blues guitarists are:

A. Being taught to play blues systematically rather than copping it from old records (guilty as charged), and
B. Tending to listen to the previous generation of players rather than tracing right back to the source.

I’ve never understood why so many guitarists want to sound/play like SRV. I mean I like what he did, but it’s really been done to death. It’s as if people think he’s the be all and end all of blues playing. As you say, there’s a whole world of blues out there which doesn’t seem to get noticed.

 

[matthewr]

To be fair to SRV his style of playing is kind of it's own genre, "Texas Blues".

 

[Nickargenta]

Sure, and I’m not knocking Stevie Ray. It’s not really my preferred style of blues, but he was an original. Perhaps if players went back to the guys that he was influenced by they’d be more likely to sound like something original rather than just a Stevie Ray imitator.

 

[Seeker_UK]

The thing I don’t understand about blues is where all the polished, pristine, virtuoso stuff even comes from?! The ‘classic’ stuff (Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Sister Rosetta Tharpe etc) was all wonderfully raw, edgy and to the point. This is the stuff I think of when the word ‘blues’ is mentioned.

Blame Jimi Hendrix and a lot of white blues guitarists (Clapton, Johnny Winter, Trower, SRV etc); the flashy stuff seems to be the more popular (we sold more Walter Trout or Johnny Winter than Albert King or Robert Johnson), probably because it was closer in sound to hard rock and easier to digest. A lot of the electric blues players tend to not listen to the older delta and folk blues but focus on the later electric styles of Freddie King or Albert Collins and then it gets refined and refined and codified and becomes this exercise in technique and not feeling.

Interestingly, Christone "Kingfish" Ingrams, one of the best up and coming players (IMHO) who could play very fast has decided to cut back on the flashiness and go for a bit more feel.
2016:

2020:

 

[Seeker_UK]

Here's a new to me player I got from (I think) Rhett Shull recently. This is awesome, but also slightly shambolic and although he was an interesting and unusual guitarist he is in no way a virtuoso.

That sort of thing really appeals to me - I'm a huge fan of the equally shambolic Hound Dog Taylor:

 

[Tony L]

Here's a new to me player I got from (I think) Rhett Shull recently. This is awesome, but also slightly shambolic and although he was an interesting and unusual guitarist he is in no way a virtuoso.

That is indeed awesome, and new to me too.

Blame Jimi Hendrix and a lot of white blues guitarists (Clapton, Johnny Winter, Trower, SRV etc); the flashy stuff seems to be the more popular (we sold more Walter Trout or Johnny Winter than Albert King or Robert Johnson), probably because it was closer in sound to hard rock and easier to digest. A lot of the electric blues players tend to not listen to the older delta and folk blues but focus on the later electric styles of Freddie King or Albert Collins and then it gets refined and refined and codified and becomes this exercise in technique and not feeling.

I view Hendrix as blameless in this, though I view him as a jazz player. He clearly kickstarted white ‘widdly widdly’ rock, but he never actually played it to my mind. His stuff was all about feel and just came from somewhere else entirely. I love Hendrix, but Cream, Clapton, Led Zep etc bore me to death. As, so far, does SRV. I just don’t get it. I’m trying though as I respect Mick on TPS!

That sort of thing really appeals to me - I'm a huge fan of the equally shambolic Hound Dog Taylor:

Hound Dog Taylor is a) great (obviously), and b) has the best guitar ever. I’ve got this album on vinyl which shows it rather better. I think its a 1960s Teisco, Kawai or something like that.

 

[Yank]

The thing I don’t understand about blues is where all the polished, pristine, virtuoso stuff even comes from?! The ‘classic’ stuff (Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Sister Rosetta Tharpe etc) was all wonderfully raw, edgy and to the point. This is the stuff I think of when the word ‘blues’ is mentioned.

Start with Freddy, Albert and Buddy...

 

[Seeker_UK]

Time for some gratuitous Freddie, Albert and Buddy then...

 

[-alan-]

... it gets refined and refined and codified and becomes this exercise in technique and not feeling.

I think that's the nail on the head..technique, but little feeling. There are a great many guitarists out there (and indeed musicians of all hues) who fall into that trap.
Not sure how you'ld ever start to quantify 'feeling' though..

 

[Seeker_UK]

Not sure how you'ld ever start to quantify 'feeling' though..

I think that's definitely a sujective thing...

 

[Stemcor]

I certainly agree that “feeling” is subjective so here’s a little experiment for you guitar players.....

Most people watch their fretting hand when playing (got to make sure that the fingers are in the right place at the right time...). A few, like me sometimes do it the wrong way round and look at their picking hand). Try not looking at all at your instrument but instead close your eyes and listen to the music you are making. It’s not easy as your body wants to be able to exert mechanical control over the operation of the guitar. If you ever manage to get used to this (and I still struggle) you might find that you actually have more control over the guitar and you know how hard to hit the strings and how far to bend the notes.

I appreciate that this is quite subjective but give it a go and see what you think.