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Edward Colston: Bristol slave trader statue 'was an affront'

Corbyn played the long game - remember 2D chess, a year or so later 3D chess, 4D, etc...considerable rope was extended to him at first on here and in the wider community, hell I even thought he was great myself. Went with my son to see him speak, my son shook his hand and didn't wash it for a week.
Then not brexit itself, not the vote, but the realities of what it would mean became obvious to those capable of joined up thought and thinking it through.
And as time went on, it became obvious that the multidimensional chess involved embracing this flawed right wing coup to not lose votes.
Unfortunately, this meant sacrificing the votes of the population segment labour had made strongest gains in - the young. No not all of them, but by and large the ones who could think, and had been inspired and motivated.
I'm sure you'll remember myself and many others on here pointing this out, and warning that it was not only destroying labours election chances, but the left wing direction the party was taking. As time went on, it became obvious that aside from a general favouring of brexit by corbyn, for ideological reasons I personally find infathomable, his strategy, such as it was, was wait.
Opportunities to surge ahead on tory lies, cockups and infighting arrived - and departed un capitalised on - almost daily. He defined inept (or did until the johnsons strategy on CV arrived). On here, almost daily, he was railed at, and predictions of labours slaughter at the next GE were made, presciently.
Finally, in a masterstroke of underachieving, he agreed to the johnsons election at the time of his choosing.
What happened?
Most of us on here were good enough to not rub it in or say I told you so, though for two years criticism of corbyn had been ongoing. You and others persisted in not addressing the criticism, but loftily asserted that the corbyn doubters were not sufficiently pure in some unspecified way and were not privy to the truth underlying it all.
For the record, I thought the policies labour ran on at the last election were great, and even their brexit fudge, had it been confidently introduced after the ref, might have flown.
So after years of open goals missed, support of a right wing coup, pathetic for the most part PMQs and being unable to keep his MPs in order, gammon allotment man was not voted for.
Two other factors - media hated him, and he didn't have the people skills to strategise with the other parties.
In retrospect he was a disaster.
Starmer seems more competent, I say tentatively, if only because he can think on his feet and articulate it. Don't necessarily like what comes out of his mouth but I do like the appearance of competence, and maybe that's more important at the moment.

Just scanned the rabid stuff there but yes, the mistake was triangulating and trying to use clever parliamentary manoeuvring: they should just have accepted the result of the referendum and voted through May's deal.

Just looking at the tentative support you're offering Starmer, and contrasting it with the rabid stuff about Corbyn. It's interesting what kind of triangulation people will put up with. Membership of a trading block? A point of principle! This shall no pass! Racism, support for unions? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt here! Got to admire the competence!
 
Labour had been bleeding support for a long period of time, the success (relatively speaking) of 2017 just amplified the 2019 result but it fits very well with the historic pattern. The failure to honour the 2017 manifesto pledge over Brexit was just the focus - many of those people abstained rather than voting Tory, and are not racists by the way. Labour is and has been failing to represent its core support, 5000+ local councillors lost since 1999, the majority in the scottish parliament in 2007 etc. Starmer is going back to the same failed philosophy of appealing to the suits...

The Sun Also Rises-

“How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked.

“Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually and then suddenly.”

“What brought it on?”

“Friends,” said Mike. “I had a lot of friends. False friends...”
 
Just scanned the rabid stuff there but yes, the mistake was triangulating and trying to use clever parliamentary manoeuvring: they should just have accepted the result of the referendum and voted through May's deal.

Just looking at the tentative support you're offering Starmer, and contrasting it with the rabid stuff about Corbyn. It's interesting what kind of triangulation people will put up with. Membership of a trading block? A point of principle! This shall no pass! Racism, support for unions? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt here! Got to admire the competence!
And you call me rabid?
Fact is, for three years here people called it like it was, and it came to pass.
 
And you call me rabid?
Fact is, for three years here people called it like it was, and it came to pass.
You said Labour would lose its Leavers to the Tories and the consequence would be a no deal Brexit, so best just to put up with May's deal and win whatever concessions we could down the line? Fair play, but that is not how I remember it.

Anyway, we're OT OT. No more from me on HARD REMAIN FANATICISM.

:)
 
It certainly shouldn't be put in any museum,
It certainly should, it and the man are part of Bristol's history. Not all of it it glorious, not all of it is stuff of which you are proud.

, it simply celebrated the use of the wealth created by the extreme greed and cruelty of a white man in Bristol. I understand why it was put up, but it, and countless like it worldwide, are not appropriate now.
... on display, with a dispassionate history of the man, his life and times and Bristols growth, in context.
We need to regret these things, explain them in context and move on.
You got this bit right.

The statue should not have been on display in the streets in modern times. It should not have been torn down by a mob, however justified their cause. 2 wrongs don't make a right. By tearing it down they handed a huge trump card (or even Trump card) to the Bullingdon scum who are now free to drone on about it being criminal damage to a monument and this being the true aim of the demonstrators. By leaving it standing but pointing it out as a CURRENT example of the tolerance of racism in this country the anti racist demonstrators missed a trick. A huge trick.
 
It certainly should, it and the man are part of Bristol's history. Not all of it it glorious, not all of it is stuff of which you are proud.

You got this bit right.

The statue should not have been on display in the streets in modern times. It should not have been torn down by a mob, however justified their cause. 2 wrongs don't make a right. By tearing it down they handed a huge trump card (or even Trump card) to the Bullingdon scum who are now free to drone on about it being criminal damage to a monument and this being the true aim of the demonstrators. By leaving it standing but pointing it out as a CURRENT example of the tolerance of racism in this country the anti racist demonstrators missed a trick. A huge trick.
A huge trick that didn't work for 30 years. They took action and it's not going to stop, and every single word out of every Tory mouth, and more than a few Labour mouths, now stands as a current example of the tolerance of racism in this country.

Hopefully an era-defining event.
 
Indeed, and I’d certainly argue that the most logical response to the party’s most humiliating rejection and defeat in getting on for a century might be to accept the ideology and presentation was just plain wrong! It’s not as if Corbyn had strong competition, it was Boris Johnson FFS?! The text book definition of the feckless idle rich with some well documented racism thrown in! To lose to that really takes a special leader!

Utterly incoherent position.

No, utterly coherent. The Labour Party has just been handed its arse on a plate because the leader didn't succeed in convincing the public that his message was right. He failed, abjectly, in the face of a buffoon like Boris. The message is not right, the means of delivering it is not right, or the LP would have got more votes. He did this on the back of however many years of failing to get the message across. He failed utterly WRT antisemitism. He failed utterly with the Brexit message. We all know that one definition of insanity is to carry on doing the same thing expecting a different result. Carry on then, because "we won the argument". Oh yes, that's what's important. Not running the country, not making it and the world a better place, but winning the argument.
 
Anyway, we're OT OT. No more from me on HARD REMAIN FANATICISM.

We are not off topic as what Corbyn apologists term “HARD REMAIN FANATICISM” (note caps) is actually anti-fascism/anti-racism/anti-imperialism. It is standing firm against Edward Colston fans such Farage, Yaxley Lennon, Hopkins and the rest of them. It is the exact topic of this thread.
 
...the democratic means that prevented it being removed years ago when there were peaceful protests and clear democratic movement to have this monumental affront to human decency removed. Was it a petition of thousands of concerned citizens verses the voice of a few fat white men in suits behind closed doors?

Spot-on.
For non-Bristolians reading - here, for example, on display the attitudes of one local councillor:
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/edward-colston-a-hero-bristol-4205516
 
People in Bristol of all colours and creeds have been trying to remove the statue from the central area for a long , long time ! Every few years petitions etc with plenty of support have been raised but the council has always resisted . Bristolians generally wanted it in a museum to highlight the horrors of slavery on which Bristol was built feeling it has historic significance in how things should not be done .I am disappointed in the way it was torn down because it should have been moved years ago and no longer an issue .
 
As Tony just posted above , this is why we could not get the statue moved or even the plaque changed over the years
 
It looks like a credible opposition to you. You represent a quite different demographic to the one that Labour risks losing, and which it needs, both to form an electoral alliance to take on the Tories’ grey army, and to actually make the party a living thing, rather than a ChUKTIG-like marketing exercise.

I understand you want the party have have a “soul” which to a large extent it lost under Blair and continued with the likes of the change U.K. supporters but the party also needs a “brain” which Corbyn and his supporters showed no signs of having, it was just road crash after road crash.
 


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