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New Bearing for LP12--The Karousel

9designs said:
Sounds to me Mr Pig has sellers remorse ;)
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Yeah, I was in a Linn/Rega dealer the other week and they said the same thing. 'You really want an LP12 mate'. Then I came home and listened to the RP10 and thought......... naaaaaa :0)

I don't think you understand. I've messed around with the LP12 for three decades, I've heard all sorts of upgrades and variations. I remember thinking the cirkus was HUGE in the same way I'm sure people will be describing this new bearing. And yes, I'm sure it will be better just as I'm sure all the other LP12 upgrades work well.

But then you plug something like my RP10 into your system and your perspective is radically altered. It makes a mockery of all the tiny differences you've heard in LP12 variants. It knocks the LP12 so far into the scenery you'd need mountain rescue to find it!

So it's better than an LP12? Not exactly because what is an LP12? I reckon some Linns are going to be better than the Rega, or on a par at least, but they're going to cost you price of a decent new car. And I'd want to go down that route because????

Do I regret no longer having a Linn? No. Honestly, I don't. I do miss some of the things it did and I do miss the looks, the Rega is a big slab of plastic, but no buyers regret here.
 
cromodora said:
Hmmm. Wouldn’t this new bearing “cap” screw down clamp interfere with the Tiger Paw Tranquility maglev.
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I'm assuming Linn don't care?

By the way, I think that Maglev is great idea. I thought of the same thing years ago, reduce the weight on the bearing but keeping the contact. I didn't know someone had made such a thing. I always thought that floating magnetic bearings were silly.
 
Linn motor, £150+, rega motor £40. Same family of motor from Mclenan. I'd suggest their lids are similarly valued. I dont know exact numbers but strongly suspect linn sell far less lp12s in a year than rega sell decks per month. In fact I'd put good money on regas current weekly unit sales for decks beating linns yearly.
 
Mr Pig said:
But then you plug something like my RP10 into your system and your perspective is radically altered. It makes a mockery of all the tiny differences you've heard in LP12 variants. It knocks the LP12 so far into the scenery you'd need mountain rescue to find it!
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Purely a personal taste thing! I went to a Rega P9, their then top of the range deck, and from there back to an LP12 again (and later on to vintage idlers). It is highly unwise to try and place absolute values on one’s subjective preferences!
 
Tony L said:
Purely a personal taste thing! I went to a Rega P9, their then top of the range deck, and from there back to an LP12 again (and later on to vintage idlers). It is highly unwise to try and place absolute values on one’s subjective preferences!
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I agree. There are genuine reasons why someone might prefer an LP12 over an RP10 but the superiority of the latter is quantifiable. But you of course right. Not everyone needs or wants the best technical performance. We are all different in what hits the spot for us and that's a good thing.
 
No, it won’t. It could be made to but, as it is now, the lower part won’t fir around the nut that holds the bearing in place.
 
Mr Pig said:
You guys really need to think about what you read a bit more carefully and try not to see the world in only black and white. Are you socialists?

I used LP12s for over thirty years and compared it to the Fender Stratocaster. A hater? Hardly. I too think it's an iconic product, yada yada, but I don't feel the need to worship the company who made it and avoid criticising anything they ever do. That just makes you a sycophant and a sheep. Or an idiot, take your pick?

I didn't criticize the bearing itself, or the turntable. Only the way in which the people in charge are choosing to market them. Sorry if you don't like that your worshipfulness', deal with it :0)
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I didn’t even see your post so why are you quoting mine? I was referring to every single time a post about Linn is made it always attracts a hard core section of criticism - more than every other brand.

Obviously it hit a nerve though.......so I suggest you deal with your issues first.
 
tenpercenter said:
I didn’t even see your post so why are you quoting mine? I was referring to every single time a post about Linn is made it always attracts a hard core section of criticism - more than every other brand.

Obviously it hit a nerve though.......so I suggest you deal with your issues first.
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Btw I don’t even own an LP12 but I may just buy another one and post lots of pictures of it declaring my “worship”
 
Two years ago I’ve got a new Cirkus kit from Peter of Cymbiosis. It was an update of mine not too old bearing.

I think, that Linn have worked on it, as it was better not only sonically. After I switch off the motor, the platter is spinning about half a minute more than the previous one.


Mr Pig said:
I don't know if it is correct but I heard somewhere that the bearings wear in quite quickly and lose their performance edge. This idea does make sense to me. When you think about it, the Cirkus bearing wasn't that different from the previous style and in mst cases would have been replacing a worn older bearing. Also, the subcassis is a different design as well so you can't make direct comparisons between the two bearings.

It's possible that your new bearing sounded better because it was replacing a slightly worn one.
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Sometimes manufacturers don’t announce their updates officially. It was the case years ago when I changed the plinth - a new Black Ash one, and later the outer platter. Both brought better sound. The unofficial explanation for the patter was - a better weight distribution.
 
Emil_F said:
It was the case years ago when I changed the plinth - a new Black Ash one, and later the outer platter. Both brought better sound.
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A rebuild alone might well improve the sound. The platter is a good one! I know a guy who got a new platter and it did not fit on his older subchassis! Not like Linn. Their tolerances are usually pretty good.
 
I believe the LP12 platter has become slightly lighter over the years. The platter is cast from Mazak/Zamak a zinc alloy. Now zinc has the advantage of high mass but also the disadvantage that it oxidises very easily - hence the dull grey finish that LP12 platters eventually seem to develop. Reducing the zinc content slights makes the alloy less reactive and the platters will remain shiny for longer (particularly with the thin lacquer coating they are given) but they will also weigh a bit less.
 
This appears to be tuning into a ‘Linn bashing’ thread, with some sensible posts in between.
It reminds me of the ‘Naim bashing’ that turns up from time to time.

I have an LP12 and I’ve owned a Rega 3 and a TD160 in the past.
I’ll admit to buying the Linn because I got it at a very good price back in ‘81.
I was friendly with the shop’s Prop. and the price was much lower than I expected.
He fitted and set up my Mission 774 arm ( which had been in the ‘160 ) for no fee.
A used Valhalla board was also fitted later. I think I paid a nominal amount for it.

The Linn has given good service with no problems and it’s a joy to own something
British and beautifully made.
I have never fitted any later upgrades and doubt I will.
Overall it has been very good value for the money I spent.
 
YNWOAN said:
Now zinc has the advantage of high mass but also the disadvantage that it oxidises very easily - hence the dull grey finish that LP12 platters eventually seem to develop.
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I thought it was the lacquer that went grey? I've always removed it and polished the platter. Stays shiny quite well and only takes a light rub to remove any fingerprints.
 
If you have an LP12 of similar spec to mine you have the option to Kore/Karousel or P/X against a P10 for probably a similar sum. Can’t really lose can you? Still fail to see what the issue is, as reported at length on another thread Linn are hardly awash with money.
 
YNWOAN said:
Finally, why does it even use a tachometer? So it makes sense to use one with a D.C. motor as they are well known to slow speed drift, but AC synchronous motors don’t. Is it really just to stop someone having to use a strobe and twiddle an adjustment pot?.
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A while back I did some testing of several of my belt drive decks and found that there is some speed drift during the session. I would speculate this may be down to belt stretch or warming during the session though other reasons may be at play.

My method was to do a digital transfer of a couple of tracks at the beginning of a session and then repeat in 10 minute intervals while leaving the decks running.

I would then align the tracks on my PC using Audacity and look for speed drift. I also compared for speed accuracy with a digital rip of the tracks and with an equivalent transfer from my Sony PS-X7 DD. The DD and digital rip were in alignment.

The drift is quite minor but there was some. I used my second LP12 (Valhalla board) as one of the decks for the testing.
 
9designs said:
Anyone running a Valhalla should look to upgrade that before worrying about this new bearing anyway.
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Hi 9designs.
Just in the process of doing just that! ' Turntable Tachometer and Speed Controller'. diyAudio.
 
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