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Next Labour Leader II

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Lots of people hold Labour councils responsible for the cuts, because they were the ones who implemented them. It’s one of the reasons the Tories were able to present themselves as insurgents, after 10 years in government.

So Tory councils that delivered Tory cuts will suffer badly?
 
Lots of people hold Labour councils responsible for the cuts, because they were the ones who implemented them. It’s one of the reasons the Tories were able to present themselves as insurgents, after 10 years in government.
If they think that they deserve a Tory govt.
They're idiots.
You seem to be twisting yourself inside out.
 
So Tory councils that delivered Tory cuts will suffer badly?
Maybe gassor, but places with Tory dominated councils tend to be wealthier and less reliant on council services, and also to have experienced fewer cuts. Also the media isn’t full of voices blaming the Tories. So equivalence is limited.
 
Maybe gassor, but places with Tory dominated councils tend to be wealthier and less reliant on council services, and also to have experienced fewer cuts. Also the media isn’t full of voices blaming the Tories. So equivalence is limited.

Tory councils in less wealthy places like the NE are going to get it tough then? You'll be expecting to see something of a revival behind the Red Wall now that Brexit is settled.
 
Tory councils in less wealthy places like the NE are going to get it tough then? You'll be expecting to see something of a revival behind the Red Wall now that Brexit is settled.
I don’t think I said any of this gassor so I’m just going to let you carry on shouting at yourself.
 
I don’t think I said any of this gassor so I’m just going to let you carry on shouting at yourself.

Why do you think there is any shouting going on? I'm a very timid moderate and who doesn't ever raise my voice to anyone. The point though is whether or not you expect a Labour revival in Sheffield now that Brexit is done and dusted.
 
Sorry Sean, I rather left you with that one.
Don't worry mate, no apology required. I completely understand you've got better things to do than deal with moderates who want to vote for the Labour party.
 
I don’t think I said any of this gassor so I’m just going to let you carry on shouting at yourself.
Just let it wash over you, Sean.

Cutting through the chaff, the position is this. Some people claim the election result was nothing to do with "let's get brexit done", that those people who switched to the tories, or the brexit party (the clue is in the name) did so mostly because Labour mishandled AS, or something like that. Labour apparently also mishandled brexit by failing to unequivoically stand for remain. The overly complicated and difficult to understand Labour position of offering a second referendum on EU membership is not actually a position, it is fence-sitting because it is not a remain position.

I am from the NE. I know people who hold Labour responsible for cuts in local services and who ignore the fact of reduced funding from central govt. I even know of people who blame Labour for Stagecoach removing the last bus of the day from a bus route. I'm told cuts in services are because the Labour council wastes money on flash dinners for themselves, and "the bastards get paid too much, just look at their pensions, anarl".

You have to hand it to the tories. Their propaganda machine (that some claim doesn't exist) has been working to perfection.
 
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Labour will struggle in May.

It will be very interesting to see as the ‘Brexit’ excuse for disastrous performance is no longer on the table. If they fail to make significant gains then that is 100% on the party, the membership and the leadership. Nowhere else to hide.

PS If coronavirus is widespread by that time turnout will be beyond pitiful.
 
Why do you think there is any shouting going on? I'm a very timid moderate and who doesn't ever raise my voice to anyone. The point though is whether or not you expect a Labour revival in Sheffield now that Brexit is done and dusted.
Countering every point someone makes with "Oh so then you think this do you!?" is passive aggressive/timid moderate equivalent of jabbing your finger in their chest.

I have no idea what to expect in Sheffield, not knowing the specific local circumstances (maybe drood can help). All I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised if the national picture for the local elections saw Labour making no headway or even going backwards, because for many reasons, some good and some not so good, lots of people are angry with Labour councillors who've been in government locally for decades. They want change and that means change locally - and in lots of places that means giving Labour another kicking. Haven't they been roundly congratulated for doing that in the general election, by almost everyone, including at least one of the candidates for the Labour leadership? The dynamic will not be the same in Tory held councils, again for lots of reasons, including those I've already suggested.
 
It will be very interesting to see as the ‘Brexit’ excuse for disastrous performance is no longer on the table. If they fail to make significant gains then that is 100% on the party, the membership and the leadership. Nowhere else to hide.

PS If coronavirus is widespread by that time turnout will be beyond pitiful.
Brexit is not being used as an excuse: it's being used as a partial explanation, for good reason. It's also not off the table: what makes you think it's all in the past and we're starting with a clean slate? This is irrational foot-stamping and finger-pointing.
 
It will be very interesting to see as the ‘Brexit’ excuse for disastrous performance is no longer on the table. If they fail to make significant gains then that is 100% on the party, the membership and the leadership. Nowhere else to hide.

PS If coronavirus is widespread by that time turnout will be beyond pitiful.
Why should Labour make significant gains? 17.2m people want brexit, they do not want to remain nor do they want a second referendum, so they are now backing the tories. Until brexit happens why would those people switch back to Labour if Labour is ignoring the referendum and is not backing brexit?
 
Why should Labour make significant gains? 17.2m people want brexit, they do not want to remain nor do they want a second referendum, so they are now backing the tories. Until brexit happens why would those people switch back to Labour if Labour is ignoring the referendum and is not backing brexit?

But around 65% of Labour's support possibly more by now don't want that Brian. The 35% most of whom abstained or fvcked off to the Tories. Something that 'the sensibles' would have been eviscerated for by the left btw. But no, these Labour treasures who preferred the nationalism of Farage to their own leader, they are the votes you think Labour ought to be chasing?
 
But around 65% of Labour's support possibly more by now don't want that Brian. The 35% most of whom abstained or fvcked off to the Tories. Something that 'the sensibles' would have been eviscerated for by the left btw. But no, these Labour treasures who preferred the nationalism of Farage to their own leader, they are the votes you think Labour ought to be chasing?
According to?

I think you place far too much reliance on polls and what are after all, just samples, Steve. People who switched from Labour to Tory/brexit party did so because they want brexit. If people who are basically Labour supporters switched due to anything else there were plenty of alternatives to the tories or brexit party.
 
According to?

I think you place far too much reliance on polls and what are after all, just samples, Steve. People who switched from Labour to Tory/brexit party did so because they want brexit. If people who are basically Labour supporters switched due to anything else there were plenty of alternatives to the tories or brexit party.

Sorry Brian but there is no point in chasing a minority by pissing off a majority, the numbers don't help you no matter how it's spun. It seems to stick in your craw that the significant majority of Labour's support didn't and don't want Brexit, for some reason.
 
Why should Labour make significant gains? 17.2m people want brexit, they do not want to remain nor do they want a second referendum, so they are now backing the tories. Until brexit happens why would those people switch back to Labour if Labour is ignoring the referendum and is not backing brexit?

Brexit has happened, the only thing still on the table is whether Johnson’s bunch of extremists take us out without any deal, but Labour are powerless until the next general election. The council elections are simply not a factor here. After a period of decades of austerity and a virus that is likely to kill huge swathes of us who will need ventilators only to find the Tory NHS has none I’d have hoped Labour might be able to make some sort of case to win a few councils back, but I keep forgetting just how crap they are!

PS I bet the Lib Dems move forwards, not backwards.
 
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