Hard times for Linn

[linnfomaniac83]

I assume it is an ARM processor? So more like a smartphone than a PC.

I can’t recall exactly what they use, might be one of the ATmega chips, but yes, it’s much more along those lines, with storage in the Megs, not Gigs, basically enough to hold the firmware and any future firmware updates. Plenty powerful for the Job. I’d say most of the chips are industry standard bits but they’re all built onto an entirely custom board, they haven’t bought any off the shelf boards.

Edit, it actually uses Xilinx chips, there’s an FPGA in there and another Xilinx chip (can’t read the writing on that one).

 

[Rockmeister]

Hahahha brilliant

Rock,



Like this.

Joe

...

 

[35451]

e

You clearly know nothing about the architecture of a Linn DS it DOES NOT use standard PC components, it’s a purpose designed streamer, it might have an Ethernet chipset that is also used in PCs but that’s where it ends, it doesn’t use a PC type CPU, it uses a microprocessor with custom firmware on board. It CAN NOT be used as a server, it has neither the storage nor the interface to add storage.

I think you’re getting confused with the short lived Kivor system that they made in the early 00s, which was designed to interface with an Intersekt based Knekt multi room system... which still wasn’t designed as a file server, it was a music server in a sense, but all the replay hardware was on board (in the form of eight stereo DACs, or a proprietary digital output to feed the Oktal DAC, depending on which version you had... that was based very much on PC hardware and you could repurpose that as a server if you wished. A DS is a different thing entirely.

Agree I know nothing about the Linn architecture. what I do know is that it uses the Xilinx FGPA chip set. This is same industry standard as AMD and intel. Unit price? Cheap as chips. Approx £20. Including dram and board..

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=283639862841


Appreciate Linn do their own firmware and mount to another pcb. majority of oems do.

I sense that you hate to think of you box as containing industry standard bits, but it does. They are good and cheap

too.

Intrigued that your streamer can't access external storage via its nic and FW. Must make it somewhat limiting.


I work for worlds largest user of Intel and AMC chipsets. Xilinx are a challenger . You may be surprised to know that the majority of chip bought are integrated into devices other that what you may define as a server or PC. (Although you still have not shared your interpretation of a server). It's an internet-of things-world.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283639862841?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-53481-19255-0%2F1%3Fff3%3D4%26pub%3D5575418208%26toolid%3D10001%26campid%3D5338626919%26mpre%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2F283639862841%26customid%3DEAIaIQobChMIwPPfg_KU5gIVBLDtCh00cQnKEAQYAiABEgK0vfD_BwE%26gclid%3DEAIaIQobChMIwPPfg_KU5gIVBLDtCh00cQnKEAQYAiABEgK0vfD_BwE%26srcrot%3D710-53481-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2204079486495%26rvr_ts%3Dc256747916e0a4d12a34dd69ff8a4288&ul_noapp=true


Appreciate Linn do their own firmware and mount to another pcb. majority of oems do.

I sense that you hate to think of you box as containing industry standard bits, but it does. They are good and cheap

too.

Intrigued that your streamer can't access external storage via its nic and FW. Must make it somewhat limiting.


I work for worlds largest user of Intel and AMC chipsets. Xilinx are a challenger . You may be surprised to know that the majority of chip bought are integrated into devices other that what you may define as a server or PC. (Although you still have not shared your interpretation of a server). It's an internet-of things-world.

I really don’t mind what it contains so long as it works well and sounds good (it does), individual component cost alone doesn’t have much to do with the retail price, those parts have to be assemble into a working product in a factory with heating, electric, water, business rates, staff, taxes, shipping, dealership mark up and warranty support up all to be added on, before you make a profit... and it doesn’t stop there, there’s r&d and continued software and firmware development, which has allowed the first DS models released to include all the most up to date features with the exception of Exakt capability which requires a hardware upgrade (because you need the Exakt ports).

The Xilinx FPGA could technically be used to run Windows or Linux if configured to do so, but in a Linn DS, it isn’t, so it can’t.

It does access external storage (in the form of a network connected file server) via its Ethernet connection but only to play audio files. It isn’t a server itself, it doesn’t have or need the facility to be.

My interpretation of a server, is a computer that is running software that “serves” data to other computers and/or facilitates communications between two or more computers on a network.

 

[PerF]

Linn should never have closed down their forum

 

[guydarryl]

^^^ did seem to be a strange decision in terms of keeping a public profile, although the "blind faith" in Linn was a bit much to take at times

 

[Woodface]

Reading this I can sympathise with their decision

 

[linnfomaniac83]

^^^ did seem to be a strange decision in terms of keeping a public profile, although the "blind faith" in Linn was a bit much to take at times

Yeah, it got a bit too Linn for me after a while, I’m a Linn user but I don’t treat them like a religion. It was a useful information and support portal though for sure.

 

[35451]

.

The Xilinx FPGA could technically be used to run Windows or Linux if configured to do so, but in a Linn DS, it isn’t, so it can’t. ERGO STD COMPONENTS

It does access external storage (in the form of a network connected file server) via its Ethernet connection but only to play audio files. It isn’t a server itself, it doesn’t have or need the facility to be. BUT IT COULD BE SINCE IT SHARES ISS COMPONENTS>

My interpretation of a server, is a computer that is running software that “serves” data to other computers and/or facilitates communications between two or more computers on a network.

......that's a file server. A NAS is also one of these, as so can a PC be. Application servers tend to be dedicated to specific applications. Web servers, well that's self explanatory. ditto mail servers. They are all the same under the hood in HW terms. And that was the point. They can have cross functional capabilities.

However you can also have SW servers and virtual servers, hosted across platforms or in containers. But underneath they are all running on similar architectures, dedicated, shared or virtualised.

And that was the basis of my, I now realise , initially glib and hard to understand comment that inside the spenny Linn boxes is a PC or server, with componentry that is fundamentally little different to millions of other boxes also residing on networks out there.

 

[Julf]

"a server is a computer program or a device that provides functionality for other programs or devices"

 

[nobeone]

FPGAs are not processors but a soup of logic that can be configured. You might configure part of that to be a processor (soft core) or even buy one with a processor attached to some FPGA fabric (hard core) but they are not by default processors. Nor are Xilinx competitors to AMD or Intel, since they don't make processors! FPGAs are very flexible but not necessarily cheap, and would be an expensive and power hungry way to compete with an AMD or Intel desktop processor running a full operating system. This gets quite complex quite quickly but they are best used where you need flexibility in design or bespoke hardware such as a lot of parallel signal processing, or big data word lengths not efficient in a standard processor. They are competitors to DSPs arguably, like TI and ADI beasts ... anyway totally OT but some of the misconceptions ^^^ are way off the mark ...

 

[GT]

What IS Linn’s main market these days ?

Not here!

 

[linnfomaniac83]

......that's a file server. A NAS is also one of these, as so can a PC be. Application servers tend to be dedicated to specific applications. Web servers, well that's self explanatory. ditto mail servers. They are all the same under the hood in HW terms. And that was the point. They can have cross functional capabilities.

However you can also have SW servers and virtual servers, hosted across platforms or in containers. But underneath they are all running on similar architectures, dedicated, shared or virtualised.

And that was the basis of my, I now realise , initially glib and hard to understand comment that inside the spenny Linn boxes is a PC or server, with componentry that is fundamentally little different to millions of other boxes also residing on networks out there.

I’m really struggling to understand what your point is now. A Linn DS is neither a PC in disguise nor a server. It might contain industry standard components (all consumer electronic devices do) but not the right combination of them to allow it to be used as anything other than its intended function. It does perform its intended function very well.

 

[Mr Pig]

Linn should never have closed down their forum

If they wanted people like us to think better of them, there are a lot of things they shouldn't have done. My incling is that they're not trying to sell product to people who use Hi-Fi forums.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

FPGAs are not processors but a soup of logic that can be configured. You might configure part of that to be a processor (soft core) or even buy one with a processor attached to some FPGA fabric (hard core) but they are not by default processors. Nor are Xilinx competitors to AMD or Intel, since they don't make processors! FPGAs are very flexible but not necessarily cheap, and would be an expensive and power hungry way to compete with an AMD or Intel desktop processor running a full operating system. This gets quite complex quite quickly but they are best used where you need flexibility in design or bespoke hardware such as a lot of parallel signal processing, or big data word lengths not efficient in a standard processor. They are competitors to DSPs arguably, like TI and ADI beasts ... anyway totally OT but some of the misconceptions ^^^ are way off the mark ...

Yeah, I skimmed over the details because I was in the pub. FPGAs are cool, immensely configurable. Linn’s decision to use them has really helped to keep theirs players pretty future proof, like adding DSP room correction via a firmware flash for instance.

 

[Mullardman]

Not here!

I think that's right. My best guess is that they are aiming for a sort of 'B&O for the more discerning/wealthy' ... type market. I'm endlessly fascinated by this sort of thing. So for a long time Technics was THE 'go to' brand for those who had never heard of anything else.. similar with Sony. I've mentioned a few times a chap I worked with over his redundancy.. who went all dreamy eyed about buying a B&O system.. describing it in hushed tones as 'The Rolls Royce of Hi Fi' I did my best to open his eyes to more possibilities.. but audio kit selection isn't really ethically part of a Careers Adviser's remit. All sorts of brands have reared their ugly heads in my conversations over the years with those who have no real interest.. and therefore have only half of the story. It's not so much that people mention a particular brand.... it's that they seem to think the one brand is 'the best', where most of us know that all brands divide opinion.. and all brands have both their Swans and their Turkeys.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

They're now the go-to brand for the rich wanting a "beyond B&O" lifestyle multi-room "Stereo system" ''cos they heard it at Harrods... or the Aston Martin showroom/Yachts Monthly etc...
B&O though actually do more "bleeding edge" research into the fundamentals of audio than virtually any other manufacturer! Their hi end stuff is not just a pretty fascia!

 

[linnfomaniac83]

They're now the go-to brand for the rich wanting a "beyond B&O" lifestyle multi-room "Stereo system" ''cos they heard it at Harrods... or the Aston Martin showroom/Yachts Monthly etc...
B&O though actually do more "bleeding edge" research into the fundamentals of audio than virtually any other manufacturer! Their hi end stuff is not just a pretty fascia!

Linn still make some genuinely superb sounding kit, but it’s getting ever more towards being “incompatible” with other brands of kit. They no long make a standalone source besides the LP12, nor a standalone preamp or integrated amp, instead “concentrating their efforts” on their DSM units and Exakt technology. And now they’ve just released a very B&O like product in the shape of the series 3 wireless speaker, which is a far, far cry from the type of product they made a few years ago, but hey, there’s a strong market for that kind of thing. It is a shame though that a lot of their traditional customer base has been left behind, in the mid 90s to mid 00s, they made some really nice kit started at a relatively affordable price for normal folk. I wouldn’t mind owning a DSM and an Exaktbox (DSP active crossover), but it’s a huge chunk of money to lay out in one go.

 

[35451]

I’m really struggling to understand what your point is now. A Linn DS is neither a PC in disguise nor a server. It might contain industry standard components (all consumer electronic devices do) but not the right combination of them to allow it to be used as anything other than its intended function. It does perform its intended function very well.

You are being obtuse. The point was and is not of functionality - you have demonstrated you confusion on servers etc - that's irrelevant, although it was you who started splitting hairs of server definitions etc.

The point is that the £4000 Linn Streamers contain many the same cheap IT components as many a £100 IT device out there. No big deal if buyers acknowledge that, as the value for owners is in the total package, not the $150 of IT stuff contained therein.

 

[35451]

They're now the go-to brand for the rich wanting a "beyond B&O" lifestyle multi-room "Stereo system" ''cos they heard it at Harrods... or the Aston Martin showroom/Yachts Monthly etc...
B&O though actually do more "bleeding edge" research into the fundamentals of audio than virtually any other manufacturer! Their hi end stuff is not just a pretty fascia!

i have been surprised at the quality of some of the B&O I have heard. They have a showroom in Bristol, right next to the Porsche dealer ship, which is telling. they deffo do 'lifestyle' very well, but they also have some imressive sounding kit, especially their higher end speakers, which combine form, function and sound good. I had previously been sniffy about them, but i changed my mind on hearing some of the Beoplay speaker range in showroom. Great designs that sound good.

It's where Linn need to compete for the big bucks spenders