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Winter election III

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Nick_G

pfm Member
I’ll take anything that averts a far-right Tory majority and stands even a hope in hell of averting Brexit. Anyone with an IQ over about 80 who isn’t a racist or billionaire tax-exile should clearly vote tactically against the Conservative Party even if it means holding their nose in the polling station. The trouble is far too many people are either profoundly thick or racist, hence we are where we are.

Corbyn may be an utter tool as a leader, but by any logical measure he is less economically and socially destructive than the current ERG extremist Conservative Party. He is also highly unlikely to win a majority so centrists looking to tactically vote against Johnson needn’t be too worried about some of the further reaching Labour manifesto pledges which will clearly never be implemented.

To put it another way any scenario that results in people such as Michael Gove, Chris Grayling, Pritti Patel or Jacob Rees Mogg being placed in positions where they can actually impact people’s lives should clearly be strategically voted against. This should be blindingly obvious to anyone.

What about here which is basically a safe Tory seat? Tactical voting is useless, so voting Labour would probably make no difference. I might as well go with the party whose policies appeal to me most, which is Green.
 
What about here which is basically a safe Tory seat? Tactical voting is useless, so voting Labour would probably make no difference. I might as well go with the party whose policies appeal to me most, which is Green.

That’s what I’m planning to do in a very safe (58% in 2017, Con 28%)) Labour seat. The outcome is certain, so I may as well help the Greens save their deposit and impact the national vote-share figures slightly. I think this is the first time we’ve had a Green to vote for, so I plan to encourage them.
 
It's also worth considering that, should the result be exactly the same again, Johnson would be in a better position than May (from his point of view), as he has 'purified' his party of many of those on the left that oppose him. The Hammonds, Grieves, Gaukes, and so on. He has extracted from all parliamentary candidates a promise to pass his Brexit deal, for example. Johnson says that his Tory party is a 'One Nation' party, but I treat that as just one of those things that comes out of his mouth. Looking at who is in his party now, it seems further to the right than for a long time, at least since the days when Michael Portillo wasn't just a man who liked trains a bit too much.

On the other hand, the DUP will be less keen to help this time.

Kind regards

- Garry

the Lib Dems will be happy to step in. Article 50? What article 50?
 
All far-right ideologies look to erode human rights, civil liberties and remove processes for holding government to legal account. No one should be in the slightest doubt that what we have here is a far-right party. The only surprising thing is just how confident and open they are about their march towards fascism.

Yep, in fact one striking thing is that much of it seems to be on just one page of their manifesto! Check it out, page 48.

Three things raised here all on that one page, so far.
 
Well, this is all lovely. Recent visit to the NE to see a relative (a slightly lapsed Labour activist) confirms my suspicion that people are feeling 'enabled' to behave like racist morons. This is very sad to say the least.

I am rather angry about the throng of JC supporters on twitter, one of which said he was 'a hero of the ages' & no one could have 'withstood what he has in the last 4 years'. FFS, Attlee fought in the 1st World War, Wilson withstood a coup & kept us out of Vietnam, Brown was ridiculed for having one eye, etc, etc.

I am voting Labour in this election but will not support them in future with Corbyn as leader; he is absolutely useless. I don't know who else is on the horizon but am comforted by the fact that I'd never heard of Corbyn either. Surely there has to be someone better?
 
I am voting Labour in this election but will not support them in future with Corbyn as leader; he is absolutely useless. I don't know who else is on the horizon but am comforted by the fact that I'd never heard of Corbyn either. Surely there has to be someone better?

I doubt he'll be doing it for much longer at his age anyway.
 
....FFS, Attlee fought in the 1st World War... Brown was ridiculed for having one eye, etc, etc.

Quite a wide spread of reasons for being 'a hero of the ages' with those two representing (presumably) the poles, or the apex and the nadir of heroisms.
 
Quite a wide spread of reasons for being 'a hero of the ages' with those two representing (presumably) the poles, or the apex and the nadir of heroisms.
Yes quite, I feel a lack of perspective from the JC frothers. As an aside, if you do appoint an anti establishment leader (if that's what he is) then it should be no surprise if has a hard time from the establishment.

I think McDonnell has massively improved, comes across as quite likeable, someone you could share a pint with (sorry horrible term) whereas JC would probably bore you do death about the time he went to Nicaragua.
 
Corbyn worms hisway under people of certain ages skin cos, in the end, he's the person they and many of us wanted to be when we reached his age only, and wholly understandably, most sold out to one degree or another for a myriad of "practical" reasons. Every time they see him, he reminds them of their own failure, so they act out and project rather than admit "we bottled it".

He was never on the extreme, unlike the Andrew Marr, Michael Portillo style communist and other converts to Torydom, he was just your utterly boring middle of the road democratic socialist who stuck up for his constituents and he is that, utterly boring however genuine, bloke. His other half is a formidable person in her own right, which is yet another reason he's hated by the political classes.

Now you can squawk all you like and make all the excuses you wish, there's a deep truth in that and I'm one myself who feels like I could have been, a "better person".
 
There are a number of reasons I am not a Corbyn fan. I can assure that one of them is not that I wish I was more like him.

If it worked like that, I would hate Ron Jeremy... :p
 
Corbyn worms hisway under people of certain ages skin cos, in the end, he's the person they and many of us wanted to be when we reached his age only, and wholly understandably, most sold out to one degree or another for a myriad of "practical" reasons. Every time they see him, he reminds them of their own failure, so they act out and project rather than admit "we bottled it".

He was never on the extreme, unlike the Andrew Marr, Michael Portillo style communist and other converts to Torydom, he was just your utterly boring middle of the road democratic socialist who stuck up for his constituents and he is that, utterly boring however genuine, bloke. His other half is a formidable person in her own right, which is yet another reason he's hated by the political classes.

Now you can squawk all you like and make all the excuses you wish, there's a deep truth in that and I'm one myself who feels like I could have been, a "better person".
Couldn't be further from the truth as far as I'm concerned.
 
Now you can squawk all you like and make all the excuses you wish, there's a deep truth in that and I'm one myself who feels like I could have been, a "better person".

I feel like Rimmer from Red Dwarf - There are probably infinite fatmarleys out there in parallel universes and I'm the worst one :(
 
I think McDonnell has massively improved, comes across as quite likeable, someone you could share a pint with (sorry horrible term)...

I shared a pint with Ken Clarke once and the insolent, erudite little shit beat me into second place in the pub quiz.
 
Corbyn worms hisway under people of certain ages skin cos, in the end, he's the person they and many of us wanted to be when we reached his age .

ROFL. I never wished to be like Corbyn, even in my youth. 'Nice but dim' is how I've seen him.
 
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