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Should Scotland be an independent country?

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
I will vote yes for Scottish independence if the Tory hard Brexit train wreck goes ahead. Being an EU citizen is 1000 times more important to me than being a UK citizen. It doesn't make any sense to restrict your future economic and cultural prosperity by becoming isolated in a small island nation with limited global influence.

If the Tory Brexit is averted I will vote to stay in UK.

A vote for tories is a vote to end the union.
 
andrewd said:
I will vote yes for Scottish independence if the Tory hard Brexit train wreck goes ahead. Being an EU citizen is 1000 times more important to me than being a UK citizen. It doesn't make any sense to restrict your future economic and cultural prosperity by becoming isolated in a small island nation with limited global influence.

If the Tory Brexit is averted I will vote to stay in UK.

A vote for tories is a vote to end the union.
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Two small but important points:

1) If Brexit goes ahead there is no route for Scotland to remain in the EU either way.

2) It's not a 'Tory Brexit' - in fact the biggest headache for both Labour and Tories is that it split each party internally.
 
Funk said:
Two small but important points:

1) If Brexit goes ahead there is no route for Scotland to remain in the EU either way.

2) It's not a 'Tory Brexit' - in fact the biggest headache for both Labour and Tories is that it split each party internally.
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The Labour version of Brexit is at least a sensible one. Single Market and Customs Union as promised by Farage and Hannan etc in the campaign. The Tory version is complete economic suicide aimed purely at lining the pockets of the ultra-rich hedge fund owners. Tories are fine throwing the country under a bus just to keep the Tory party together.
 
I think it’s better not to dress up speculation as fact in respect of the EU’s likely attitude to Scotland taking its place back in Europe. That was the colossal folly of Brexit- misjudging the EU. As the Brexit experiment progresses, we can learn from it. Scots have to go into this with their eyes open. It poses substantial challenges and risks that wouldn’t justify independence in normal times but unfortunately we are not in normal times and the price of independence has to be weighed against the economic damage we inevitably will sustain from even a negotiated Brexit. Difficult times ahead for everyone.
 
I think both Brexit and Scottish independence will lead to at least 20 years of economic uncertainty and lower standards of living in all British countries. The best possible outcome is to avoid both. The first hurdle is to avoid the Tories getting a majority.
 
claire.foxx said:
Quit the bullshit Brian. It doesn’t wash.
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It’s not bullshit. I left home at 17, I’m 61 now. I have spent those years living and working with people from all over the UK and some time living abroad. I’m sure lots of England-types as you call the English would like to see the back of Scotland, I myself dislike the attitude of the Scottish Nationalists, however I don’t want to see the back of Scotland and I seriously doubt I know personally many who do. I have friends from Scotland. If you think I really want to see them up against it due to the idiocy of the nationalists you are mistaken.
 
TheDecameron said:
I think it’s better not to dress up speculation as fact in respect of the EU’s likely attitude to Scotland taking its place inside Europe. That was the colossal folly of Brexit- misjudging the EU. As the Brexit experiment progresses, we can learn from it. Scots have to go into this with their eyes open. It poses substantial challenges and risks that wouldn’t justify independence in normal times but unfortunately we are not in normal times and the price of independence has to be weighed against the economic damage we inevitably will sustain from even a negotiated Brexit. Difficult times ahead for everyone.
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FullFact states pretty unequivocally that Scotland would have to apply to rejoin and adopt the € as per the Barroso document: https://fullfact.org/law/can-scotland-stay-in-eu/

It does say that there could be steps taken by the EU to amend treaties as they currently stand etc but that this would require the unanimous agreement of all member states at present. Given the Catalan issue I can't see Spain agreeing to anything that makes continuing EU membership easy for seceding states.

It would be the biggest of leaps into the dark by Scotland, that's for certain. In fact, it would probably be economically crazier for Scotland to vote to leave the UK than people are saying it is for the UK to leave the EU - especially given that an independent Scotland would be financially borked from day one with no guarantees of EU lifelines being available.
 
Funk said:
FullFact states pretty unequivocally that Scotland would have to apply to rejoin and adopt the € as per the Barroso document: https://fullfact.org/law/can-scotland-stay-in-eu/

It does say that there could be steps taken by the EU to amend treaties as they currently stand etc but that this would require the unanimous agreement of all member states at present. Given the Catalan issue I can't see Spain agreeing to anything that makes continuing EU membership easy for seceding states.

It would be the biggest of leaps into the dark by Scotland, that's for certain. In fact, it would probably be economically crazier for Scotland to vote to leave the UK than people are saying it is for the UK to leave the EU - especially given that an independent Scotland would be financially borked from day one with no guarantees of EU lifelines being available.
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Facts are not welcome here. Have you not read the recent posts informing us that an independent Scotland would flourish, and outperform the rest of the UK. There was not much detail on how, but the passion has on an SNP level. A first step by one contributor was to close the UK Submarine manufacturing base at Faslane with the loss of about 25,000 jobs.
 
Funk said:
Two small but important points:

1) If Brexit goes ahead there is no route for Scotland to remain in the EU either way.
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Indeed, and the most likely route to rejoining the EU would probably be for Scotland as an independent nation. It wouldn’t then be dependent on the U.K. as a whole deciding to rejoin.
 
as a principle I think separatism sucks. No man is an island and neither is any country (unless it is one obvs :) )
However, if you are in a toxic relationship, it's much much wiser, after giving it your best shot for a while to make all good, and failing, to b***er orf elsewhere.
OK, it'll be tough, but it'll be your tough, not some rsole's from Eton.

I thank you.
Other filosofikal quotes for you twitter feed are available at the cost of a small ish donation.
 
TheDecameron said:
I think it’s better not to dress up speculation as fact in respect of the EU’s likely attitude to Scotland taking its place back in Europe. That was the colossal folly of Brexit- misjudging the EU. As the Brexit experiment progresses, we can learn from it. Scots have to go into this with their eyes open. It poses substantial challenges and risks that wouldn’t justify independence in normal times but unfortunately we are not in normal times and the price of independence has to be weighed against the economic damage we inevitably will sustain from even a negotiated Brexit. Difficult times ahead for everyone.
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Yet you voted for it well before 2016.
 
narabdela said:
If I had been living in Scotland and eligible to vote in the last Independence Referendum, I would have voted ‘No’

Brexit has changed all that. It would be a very definite ‘Yes’ if there was another one.
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Yes, Brexit has shown that it's OK to vote to leave an economically sound union and commit to an economically suicidal course of action. It's only fair that Scotland should have the same opportunity. :)
 
Funk said:
FullFact states pretty unequivocally that Scotland would have to apply to rejoin and adopt the € as per the Barroso document: https://fullfact.org/law/can-scotland-stay-in-eu/

It does say that there could be steps taken by the EU to amend treaties as they currently stand etc but that this would require the unanimous agreement of all member states at present. Given the Catalan issue I can't see Spain agreeing to anything that makes continuing EU membership easy for seceding states.

It would be the biggest of leaps into the dark by Scotland, that's for certain. In fact, it would probably be economically crazier for Scotland to vote to leave the UK than people are saying it is for the UK to leave the EU - especially given that an independent Scotland would be financially borked from day one with no guarantees of EU lifelines being available.
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Thanks for the link. So it’s essentially speculation too about the mechanisms for Scotland’s re-entry into the EU. Your second point I agree with. Scotland becoming independent poses the same challenges as Brexit does for the UK- creating a barrier with your closest and biggest trading partner. This is exactly what’s going to happen to Ireland and Scottish Govt will watch closely what mitigating actions the EU puts in place to protect the Irish economy.

England outside the EU and Scotland inside it with a customs barrier is also an added problem. A bit like Northern Ireland’s position if Johnson gets his withdrawal agreement, leaving it outside the UK customs border. Its going to be potentially bloody, people need to know that. If Britain as its currently configured, goes for hard Brexit, aligns itself with Trump, defaulting on its budget commitment to Brussels and deregulates, adopting the position of Trump, namely that the EU is a foe, then the Scotland - EU relationship again changes significantly.
I think first we have to get through this GE, next watch how the negotiations with the EU proceed- if Brexit is aborted then it takes 50% of the wind out of the independence argument and if the Tories are gone, it really undermines the case for independence to my mind. If Brexit proceeds, we have to watch and learn and stay close to the EU before making our move .
Colin Barron said:
Facts are not welcome here. Have you not read the recent posts informing us that an independent Scotland would flourish, and outperform the rest of the UK. There was not much detail on how, but the passion has on an SNP level. A first step by one contributor was to close the UK Submarine manufacturing base at Faslane with the loss of about 25,000 jobs.
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Fact check. They don’t manufacture submarines at Faslane. That takes place at Barrow. I thought you’d have known that- it’s pretty basic. Did you get it from the retired ballet dancer’s Brexit blog again?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Indeed, and the most likely route to rejoining the EU would probably be for Scotland as an independent nation. It wouldn’t then be dependent on the U.K. as a whole deciding to rejoin.
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Unfortunately Scotland on its doesn't meet the requirements for joining the EU as a new member though.
 
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