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Vast Brexit thread merge part V

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There was a rumour this morning that the DUP are now considering a second referendum.

As I suspected from their response to the Johnson deal, I think they now realise that supporting Brexit will/has led to their political demise.

Stephen
 
There was a rumour this morning that the DUP are now considering a second referendum.

As I suspected from their response to the Johnson deal, I think they now realise that supporting Brexit will/has led to their political demise.

Stephen
The demise of the bowler hat wearing religious fundamentalists can only be a good thing. Death of DUP and death of Tory Party in one fell swoop is too much to hope for I guess.
 
Because of May's (and now Johnson's) dismissal of remainers and experts, most voters appear to have become radicalised in one way or another. PFM, in many ways, reflects this, so it's not surprising that tempers run high here too.

Yet, nuance still exits.

A woman on Any Answers, a farmer, voted remain but now wants to 'just get on with it'. A man who voted leave because of worries on immigration thought the EU would cave in and revise FOM but now thinks we should have a second referendum and stay in. An Irish student leaver now realises his vote to leave was a protest vote. A student studying in the EU is furious that older people have voted to remove the rights that they themselves enjoyed.

I hear a lot of 'just get on with it' from both sides. I'm surprised when a remain voter says this as they generally accept the evidence that Brexit is a really bad thing and Johnson's deal is a really bad thing.

Stephen
Seen on the march yesterday "Just Get On With Remain".
 
Testing the water today my fear is Johnson’s hopeless Brexit deal will pass this week entirely thanks to Labour. I hope I’m wrong, but I just fear the party is so riddled with MPs in ugly leave seats that will place their own political career ahead of the clear interest of the country or those with businesses and jobs in their own area.

Given six Labour gammons wouldn’t even vote for the Letwin Amendment, which only served to protect us from the bare-faced lies and recklessness of Johnson, my guess is another ten or more will join them. That will be enough to get it over the line. I’m expecting Corbyn to be his usual useless conflicted spineless self and not withdraw the whip even from MPs who enable the worst excesses of disaster capitalism, xenophobia and white ethnic nationalism, let alone supporting a mandate-less minority PM who is so arrogant he considers himself entirely above the law.
 
Brexit was about taking back control so it resides in our parliamentary sovereignty. Yet Boris Johnson’s 3 letters to the EU undermines the balance of executive, legislative and judiciary on which parliamentary sovereignty is founded.

By sending the unsigned letter Johnson in contravention of the spirit of the Benn Act and his 2 further signed letters contradicting it, Johnson has set himself up as superior to and distinct from the legislative.

Far from fulfilling the Brexit promise to enhance parliamentary sovereignty, Johnson is trampling all over it.

Welcome to the the Republic of the ERG
 
Testing the water today my fear is Johnson’s hopeless Brexit deal will pass this week entirely thanks to Labour. I hope I’m wrong, but I just fear the party is so riddled with MPs in ugly leave seats that will place their own political career ahead of the clear interest of the country or those with businesses and jobs in their own area.

Given six Labour gammons wouldn’t even vote for the Letwin Amendment, which only served to protect us from the bare-faced lies and recklessness of Johnson, my guess is another ten or more will join them. That will be enough to get it over the line. I’m expecting Corbyn to be his usual useless conflicted spineless self and not withdraw the whip even from MPs who enable the worst excesses of disaster capitalism, xenophobia and white ethnic nationalism.

The whole point of the Letwin amendment was to give parliament more time to consider the deal before voting on it. So it seems unlikely to me that additional Labour MPs will make the move on an early vote next week. Which, of course, is why the government withdrew the bill once the amendment passed -- MPs were signalling it would not pass without, at the very last, more analysis and debate.

There is also the shady way Rees-Mogg used a point of order at the end of the debate which the speaker signalled he was not going to stand for. So it might not even come up for another vote until the ramifications of Saturday are clear and worked out.
 
Brexit was about taking back control so it resides in our parliamentary sovereignty. Yet Boris Johnson’s 3 letters to the EU undermines the balance of executive, legislative and judiciary on which parliamentary sovereignty is founded.

By sending the unsigned letter Johnson in contravention of the spirit of the Benn Act and his 2 further signed letters contradicting it, Johnson has set himself up as superior to and distinct from the legislative.

Far from fulfilling the Brexit promise to enhance parliamentary sovereignty, Johnson is trampling all over it.

Welcome to the the Republic of The ERG

Yes but calm heads needed. Bercow should rule out the return of Johnson's turd tomorrow. For a start there was no good reason to withdraw it and by now motions to produce the impact statements should be heard before MPs vote on it.
 
There is also the shady way Rees-Mogg used a point of order at the end of the debate which the speaker signalled he was not going to stand for. So it might not even come up for another vote until the ramifications of Saturday are clear and worked out.

I hope that is correct. I’m sure Bercow will try to do the right thing if he possibly can, though annoyingly his days in the role are numbered. My fear is if it goes to the vote it will pass. Because Labour.
 
Amidst the rabid front pages of most of the Sunday papers, I liked this one from the Sunday Mail ;)

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I hope that is correct. I’m sure Bercow will try to do the right thing if he possibly can, though annoyingly his days in the role are numbered. My fear is if it goes to the vote it will pass. Because Labour.
It may not even get to a vote because Labour.
 
The whole point of the Letwin amendment was to give parliament more time to consider the deal before voting on it. So it seems unlikely to me that additional Labour MPs will make the move on an early vote next week. Which, of course, is why the government withdrew the bill once the amendment passed -- MPs were signalling it would not pass without, at the very last, more analysis and debate.

There is also the shady way Rees-Mogg used a point of order at the end of the debate which the speaker signalled he was not going to stand for. So it might not even come up for another vote until the ramifications of Saturday are clear and worked out.
Also, the Letwin amendment removes the threat of an accidental No Deal, and early noises from the EU indicate that the request for an extension will be granted. Some potential Labour rebels said they might vote for Johnson's deal to avoid No Deal, so yesterday's vote changes the dynamic. Whether it's enough remains to be seen.
 
Or lack of spine from Tory "rebels", many of whom have been fawned over on this very forum.
Of Swinson’s proposed caretakers, one voted against Letwin (Stewart) and another has declared he’ll vote for the deal (Clarke). She couldn’t support Corbyn because “he’s a Brexiter at heart”.

That blame is still being focused on Corbyn at this stage says something.
 
Without the DUP it can’t pass without Labour voting for it. That is just simple math.
I think you need to distinguish between Labour (a political party made up of hundreds of MPs) and a handful of Labour MPs who might vote for Johnson's deal.
 
The court date was set for Monday a while back and deliberately set to ensure that Johnson would be held in contempt if he failed to comply with the law. Which he has -- not signing is irrelevant, the side letters will be ignored, the EU has immediately recognised it as a legitimate request for delay. So there is now not much to say or do in court on Monday. Remember Cherry was speaking after Johnson's reply in parliament which seemed to imply he was going to break the law, but then he rolled over like a Poundshop Trump and did what parliament had instructed him to do.

As ever with these things legal twitter is your friend : https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1185699948475617280

If one must read journalists, avoid Peston, Laura K., Shippers, etc. and go with Sky's Beth Rigby : https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1185668023635628042

IMHO much the drama will be in parliament and what the speaker will do with regard to Rees-Mogg's questionable approach to running the order and business of the house.

Or Lewis Goodall (also Sky): https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1185673376557387777

His most recent article is excellent: https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-b...-his-deal-if-theresa-may-achieved-it-11839137

Why can't more political journalists, you know, remember stuff?
 
The whole point of the Letwin amendment was to give parliament more time to consider the deal before voting on it. So it seems unlikely to me that additional Labour MPs will make the move on an early vote next week. Which, of course, is why the government withdrew the bill once the amendment passed -- MPs were signalling it would not pass without, at the very last, more analysis and debate.

There is also the shady way Rees-Mogg used a point of order at the end of the debate which the speaker signalled he was not going to stand for. So it might not even come up for another vote until the ramifications of Saturday are clear and worked out.

According to Letwin on Marr today the whole point of the amendment was to prevent a no deal. He said he would vote for the BJ deal as he did with Mays deals in the past.
 
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