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Vast Brexit thread merge part III

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an english parliament is long overdue. the fact that there isn't one speaks to the arrogance and presumption there is that the uk & parliament are in reality english institutions in themselves.

I would not welcome an all-England assembly. I would prefer several regional ones in order to encourage people to sink their notions of identity into something a bit smaller and less menacing.
 
Mods, may I respectfully suggest that anyone seriously talking about "treason" in this context be removed from the thread, and ultimately the forum.

It is the rhetoric of the far-right and it's already led to the death of one MP and multiple credible death threats to several others.

I know it can be amusing, in some ways, to observe at close quarters the mindset of fanatical Brexiters, and to take the p*ss outof them. But talk of "treason" is inappropriate, reckless and profoundly dangerous and it should not be tolerated here or anywhere else. We must not allow this to become normalised.

On a personal level, if I wanted to swim in a far-right sewer I'd visit the Daily Fail website and read the comments.

I did call out the hypocrisy of bribing smaller EU states l(ike Hungary). Is that allowed?
 
Treason
The crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.
This is in effect what Bercow and the Lib Dems are doing by offering encouragement to the EU that another referendum and remaining is an option favoured by the UK. This is undermining the elected government who are striving to get a deal which will allow us to be trading partners with our friends in Europe, and at the same time removing the federal control of the EU.
The countries of Europe need to trade to survive, lets hope common sense will prevail.

now THAT"s a scary post
 
I have frequently seen such insistence and reference.

I have quoted the relevant part. My emphasis in bold:

I suspect you knew this but sought to waste my time.
I haven't. I've seen the opposite. Interesting to know you don't see the likes of Johnson and his backers to be part of "The Establishment". I thought this was a given but it seems not.

Why would I care about your time, by the way? I'm not interested in what you do with your time other than historically you spend a lot of it whinging. Looks like nothing has changed there.

Btw, my car is a Korean-built Hyundai, my wife's is a Kia. And there is no 'elsewhere' either. It's either Korea or UK - if there is anything left in the UK.
Mine isn't. Neither is my wife's. If there turns out to be nothing left in the UK are you planning to move to Korea?

Thanks, though I'm not convinced this is representative of 17.4m people. What on earth is "spiked", "Leigh Journal"? You can't expect "Brexit Central" to write anything sensible? The Telegraph is hardly worth a mention.

Anyway, "The Establishment" is Johnson, Rees-Mogg, the ERG group and their backers who are trying to push through a hard-brexit to further their own self interest. Do you disagree?

Maybe there are 2 "Establishments"? Or perhaps "The Establishment" is split between remain and leave? In any case, the sweeping statement made by the member earlier is just spurious nonsense. I can't see why this point about "The Establishment" was even raised other than being just another whinge in a whole series of whinges.
 
now THAT"s a scary post

Any people versus establishment narrative is dangerous especially when the narrative comes from the establishment (the prep school/coaching > Eaton > Oxford > PPE > drop E in year 3 > Tory Party > inherit Daddy's money > Brexit set.)
 
What on earth is "spiked", "Leigh Journal"? You can't expect "Brexit Central" to write anything sensible? The Telegraph is hardly worth a mention.

One of them is my local newspaper. The MP is a hard Brexit, Johnson arse kissing. Tory with a majority under 1,000. He's rabble rousing hoping to pick up votes from Labour voters disillusioned with Corbyn.
 
I haven't. I've seen the opposite. Interesting to know you don't see the likes of Johnson and his backers to be part of "The Establishment". I thought this was a given but it seems not.

Why would I care about your time, by the way? I'm not interested in what you do with your time other than historically you spend a lot of it whinging. Looks like nothing has changed there.


Mine isn't. Neither is my wife's. If there turns out to be nothing left in the UK are you planning to move to Korea?


Thanks, though I'm not convinced this is representative of 17.4m people. What on earth is "spiked", "Leigh Journal"? You can't expect "Brexit Central" to write anything sensible? The Telegraph is hardly worth a mention.

Anyway, "The Establishment" is Johnson, Rees-Mogg, the ERG group and their backers who are trying to push through a hard-brexit to further their own self interest. Do you disagree?

Maybe there are 2 "Establishments"? Or perhaps "The Establishment" is split between remain and leave? In any case, the sweeping statement made by the member earlier is just spurious nonsense. I can't see why this point about "The Establishment" was even raised other than being just another whinge in a whole series of whinges.

I DO see the likes of Johnson and his backers as part of the establishment.

Now you really are deliberately wasting my time. Is this the forum equivalent of gas lighting on your part?

Our contingency plans don't include Korea, North or South. I am fortunate that my wife is of Irish descent. The application left for Dublin via my solicitor's office only last week.
 
it is in some senses a false economy. an older car generally means higher maintenance costs (more pollution), less efficient engines (more pollution), engines in a poor state of repair (more pollution), and less efficient road holding (more pollution).
I acknowledge that new cars are generally more efficient but this does little to offset the cost of energy/resources to build the car in the first place. And, of course, that new car will go onto become another old car which, if there are loads of them, will be comparatively cheap enough to be owned by people who otherwise may well have used public transport.

We always look to buy second-hand in other areas of consumption these days. For example, we recently bought a used LCD telly and a used table/chairs set for 50 quid each - all local too. Now, I am not blowing smoke up my own arse and neither would I demand that others do the same, I am just saying it makes perfect economic and environmental sense to me.

As always your mileage may vary.

Rat
 
Treason
The crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.
This is in effect what Bercow and the Lib Dems are doing by offering encouragement to the EU that another referendum and remaining is an option favoured by the UK. This is undermining the elected government who are striving to get a deal which will allow us to be trading partners with our friends in Europe, and at the same time removing the federal control of the EU.
The countries of Europe need to trade to survive, lets hope common sense will prevail.
Treason? Hadn't you better report this to the police or some other authority? You sound like you have a watertight case.
Calling 999 should get the ball rolling...
 
Explanation for yesterday's events?

Tusk had given Johnson a deadline for today https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1182584774059352065

Johnson had earlier promised Tusk "to come forward with a solution that would work for all. A solution that would not only satisfy the hardcore brexiteers, but also solve our well known and legitimate objectives."

But he didn't... Quelle surprise.

So probably a mix of desperation and lies explains yesterday's optimism.
 
What a splendid metaphor for Brexit.

We could stay in the EU or even the SM/CU, and be able to afford nice cars, or
Brexit, and buy something serviceable but just a little bit shit.

perhaps Trabant could take over the Nissan factory when they decide there will be no new models built in the UK post a no deal brexit.
 
Treason
The crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.
This is in effect what Bercow and the Lib Dems are doing by offering encouragement to the EU that another referendum and remaining is an option favoured by the UK. This is undermining the elected government who are striving to get a deal which will allow us to be trading partners with our friends in Europe, and at the same time removing the federal control of the EU.
The countries of Europe need to trade to survive, lets hope common sense will prevail.
But it is.
The figures are out there.
There is no majority now for leaving, let alone leaving without a deal.
So, surely persevering with a ineptly implemented sh1tstorm which will damage the country is TREASON?
Not trying to avert disaster?
 
But it is.
The figures are out there.
There is no majority now for leaving, let alone leaving without a deal.
So, surely persevering with a ineptly implemented sh1tstorm which will damage the country is TREASON?
Not trying to avert disaster?

No majority in Parliament

No majority in the country

The British people elected the Parliament more recently than they voted in the referendum.
 
From Patrick Maguire (New Statesman) some information on what Johnson is proposing, it sounds plausible, but I can't see the DUP and ERG signing up for it;

"The suggestion doing the rounds in Dublin is that Northern Ireland would leave the customs union - fulfilling, on paper at least, the DUP's demand for the whole UK to leave on the same terms - but be treated as if it hadn't, with EU tariffs applied at its ports and any difference with Britain's rebated to businesses. As for consent, Northern Ireland Secretary Julian Smith said last night that no one community would get a veto over the arrangements - and did not rule out putting them to a referendum.

If you think that all sounds a bit like the sort of de facto Irish Sea border that the DUP has set its face like flint against for the duration of this process, then you'd be right. If you're old enough to remember the so-called customs partnership proposed by Theresa May last year - and subsequently rubbished by her own cabinet and many of her MPs - then this will also feel incredibly familiar. Both Arlene Foster and the hard Brexiteers of the European Research Group are keeping schtum for now, and have been careful to dismiss nothing. But, if the gist of this morning's reports are right, they have reason to be angry."
 
Thanks, though I'm not convinced this is representative of 17.4m people. What on earth is "spiked", "Leigh Journal"? You can't expect "Brexit Central" to write anything sensible? The Telegraph is hardly worth a mention.

I didn't claim that any of those sources were sensible or worthy. You said:

"I haven’t seen any regular insistence or reference from leave supporters that remain politicians are ‘the establishment’."​

These are all leave supporters who regularly insist that remain politicians are the establishment. The Telegraph, for example, has headlines like that on a regular basis.
 
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