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Prince Andrew allegations not going away...

ks.234 said:
Yes. There also appears to be a subtext that goes along the lines of, it’s about Royals and Royals only doing what Royals do and always have done, get over it. Andrew’s behaviour, if it’s what it seems (and the evidence suggests it is) is not acceptable now, then or ever.
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Correct, it is 'power' & abuse there of
 
Woodface said:
The basic subtext from some on here is that it was all the girls fault.
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Nobody in this thread knows exactly what has happened, you included. Everything written here is based on assumptions, therefore you must accept that not all contributors go your way. FWIW I still don't give a damn about who did what to whom, for the simple reason that I am not in a position to make an accurate judgment. I hope you can tolerate my indifference, from then on you can insert the subtext you want to.
 
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Cheese said:
Nobody in this thread knows exactly what has happened, you included. Everything written here is based on assumptions, therefore you must accept that not all contributors go your way. FWIW I still don't give a damn about who did what to whom, for the simple reason that I am not in a position to make an accurate judgment. I hope you can tolerate my indifference, from then on you can insert the subtext you want to.
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We don’t need to. The evidence we have, which is absolutely indisputable, is one of the UK’s highest paid public employees, a person who has received £millions from the state/tax-payer over his life, actively chose to socialise and stay with a convicted child rapist. Surely that is damning enough in itself?
 
Oh, I prefer this, thank you Tony. In clear you see a problem in the fact that Prince Andrew used to socialise with that Epstein bloke. Rest assured, if one of my friends turned out to be a child rapist, I might well take some distance too, if that can avoid me any problems. Now Epstein probably had an enormous network of friends, businesspeople and parasites of all sorts, just like all billionaires have. I presume that only a fraction of these people knew about Epstein's intimate preferences. Is Andrew certainly among those in the know ? I've no idea, but being a Royal is certainly no advantage here, and frankly I still believe this whole non-story to having been artificially inflated by people who are, for some reason, fed up with the Royals but who don't find a more elegant way to achieve their ends.

And if i got it right, the 17-year-old girl episode was dug out just in time in order to give the story a 'child rapist' side. Andrew is now a child rapist, fantastic.

Come on, guys. I tell you once again, your country is burning and if I were you I'd start reading actual news, for instance about your Government and how it intends to handle Brexit. I'm even starting to think that any Royal would make a better job than the blokes currently sitting at either side of the HoC, and this worries me far more than that gossip about a Royal.
 
Cheese said:
Is Andrew certainly among those in the know ?
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Yes, obviously. Epstein was a convicted pedophile *before* all the footage/pictures of Andrew in his house. As a highly paid public servant/national figurehead one would have hoped he’d have the core intellect and professionalism to stay away from such things, let alone be pictured in a child sex offender’s house with underage girls etc. Really not a good look IMHO, and I say that as someone who has met Bill Wyman!
 
Cheese said:
I don't know whether I've got your point, Vuk, all I want to say is that I (like probably all other fishies) am/are not in a position to judge what is right or wrong on a moral ground. What we can do is choose the people we want to interact with in our lives but that's pretty much it. Our grandparents had a totally different vision of morality from the one we do, but it was their time and their situation, we are not going to teach them anything.

Again, my point remains that we have evolved since the days when justice meant that a village mob came to burn down the house of a supposed criminal. I fear that we are returning exactly there with our social media platforms and the way they are ruled.

I confess I haven't read the entire press from left to right about that 17 year old woman, but as far as I know she hasn't filed a lawsuit. Correct me if I'm wrong but if she hasn't, why should we old hifi farts be in a position to judge anyone involved ?

Are they supposed to be any different from the law applied on the common man ? Such people tend to be treated with favours indeed, but would it then be right to treat them any harsher than you and I ? No.

No matter what I say about your last sentence, who is 'we' ? On what grounds would we [the people] have any right to punish any other person ?
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i don't quite think you've gotten my point, so i'll be clearer.

i agree with you that we don't know everything about what the prince may or may not have done. i also would agree that some of the MeToo stuff over the past few years has felt like mob behaviour and delivered more than a few clumsy initial/prejudicial verdicts. that said, like tony, i am happy to restrict my comments and judgment to what we know for certain right now.

this is mainly about outrage against a representative of the monarchy, not a simple, regular person. the monarchy is based on a notion of heredity that once claimed to be a "blood line" of superior people -- a sort of hyper-racism, if you like. no royal would make those claims now (well, at least not in public) and the cultural/PR twist is something along the lines of them acting as a sort of noble, selfless role model of propriety and charity, albeit amidst great luxury and wealth (ironically, this gives it "popular" appeal to a lot of people). that's the best i can do right now with such an absurd situation, but i hope you get the picture.

in that context, when one of them slips up ethically and socially in such a massive way, even if most of it is not actually criminal, the unwashed masses have to take the opportunity to make a big political move and rant on and on about the hypocrisy. appearances are all these people have, so it's a perfect way to take them down. sure it invokes some mob-like instincts, but massive social injustice has that effect.
 
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stevec67 said:
For as many different combinations of reasons as there are girls doing it.
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I'm struggling to think of any realistic or likely scenarios that don't include some combination of grooming, drugs or coercion. Any ideas?

To ask a slightly different question: why might a 17 year-old girl find herself at a party for 40+ year-old men, at the home of a convicted child rapist and procurer of underage girls?
 
There’s no such thing as ‘a 17 year old girl’, I know nothing of this one but some 17 year olds are extremely street-wise and may well have their own reasons for being in such a situation involving personal advancement and making easy money.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'm struggling to think of any realistic or likely scenarios that don't include some combination of grooming, drugs or coercion. Any ideas?

To ask a slightly different question: why might a 17 year-old girl find herself at a party for 40+ year-old men, at the home of a convicted child rapist and procurer of underage girls?
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Your list, plus money, possibly?
 
if I saw a male acquaintance in a photograph with his had around the naked waist of a 17 yr old in the same manner as Prince Andrew, I would not allow that man to be alone with any daughter of mine.
 
Bart said:
There’s no such thing as ‘a 17 year old girl’, I know nothing of this one but some 17 year olds are extremely street-wise and may well have their own reasons for being in such a situation involving personal advancement and making easy money.
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Let's face it, we all know somewhere some chick involved with a rich old fart whose blood sometimes migrates from his brain downwards, and where it's clear that she is the boss of the two. While I think that she's absolutely right to take financial advantage of that dirty idiot, I also mean that young girls are by far not always the innocent victims some do-gooders want to make them look like. When perversion is involved on both sides, I let them live their lives but don't expect me to feel sorry for any of the two if things turn sour.

vuk said:
in that context, when one of them slips up ethically and socially in such a massive way, even if most of it is not actually criminal, the unwashed masses have to take the opportunity to make a big political move and rant on and on about the hypocrisy. appearances are all these people have, so it's a perfect way to take them down. sure it invokes some mob-like instincts, but massive social injustice has that effect.
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I won't go as far as liking your post, Vuk, but I wouldn't dislike it either if there were such a button. The only problem I have with it is the 'take them down' bit. Does the average Briton want this ?
 
Cheese said:
Let's face it, we all know somewhere some chick involved with a rich old fart whose blood sometimes migrates from his brain downwards, and where it's clear that she is the boss of the two. While I think that she's absolutely right to take financial advantage of that dirty idiot, I also mean that young girls are by far not always the innocent victims some do-gooders want to make them look like. When perversion is involved on both sides, I let them live their lives but don't expect me to feel sorry for any of the two if things turn sour.

I won't go as far as liking your post, Vuk, but I wouldn't dislike it either if there were such a button. The only problem I have with it is the 'take them down' bit. Does the average Briton want this ?
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Chick

One from the ark there!
 
Girl, woman, spouse, whatever. Remember I am not a native English writer so I don't always know about the connotation of terms. But I guess it's safe to say that a 17-year-old *****ing an old fart for his money can be called a chick.

Before someone jumps on the opportunity: The line above has nothing to do with the blonde appearing with Andrew, I don't know anything about her.
 
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