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Vandalism and the worth of getting Security Cameras or similar

"If you are capturing images beyond your property boundary, you should have a clear and justifiable reason for doing so. In particular, you will need to think why you need these images. If asked by an individual or the ICO, you will need to be able to explain your reasons, so you should write them down now. You should also write down why you think capturing the images is more important than invading the privacy of your neighbours and passers-by.

You will also need to:

  • Let people know you are using CCTV by putting up signs saying that recording is taking place, and why.
  • Ensure you don’t capture more footage than you need to achieve your purpose in using the system.
  • Ensure the security of the footage you capture – in other words, holding it securely and making sure nobody can watch it without good reason.
  • Only keep the footage for as long as you need it – delete it regularly, and when it is no longer needed.
  • Ensure the CCTV system is only operated in ways you intend and can’t be misused for other reasons. Anyone you share your property with, such as family members who could use the equipment, needs to know the importance of not misusing it."
Thanks for the extracts. I will ask the camera people for advice on this too.
I think I can manage these requirements without too much effort but certainly worth sorting them out upfront.
 
RichardA you are most welcome.
If the Met' still offer the service easiest way to access is 'phoning your local and ask to speak to the crime prevention officer.
It was a couple of decades ago, but when I did the survey and other info' proved to be very useful.
Also made handy contacts in the CPO, and a locksmith/security installer specialist.
 
I've got a fair bit of experience with both aspects of your problem, I'll try and keep it brief.

Vehicle vandalism, my Mum suffered from this for about two years and it pretty much ruined both her car and several others (paint stripper) along a specific route down her street and others over quite a distance. The Police tried to catch them many times and even installed CCTV in my Mum's house for a period of time, with no success. They caught him eventually but purely down to Facebook and luck, and not Police work or CCTV. Take from that what you will.

CCTV/data protection aspect. My Dad has a hard wired 3 camera set up and a hard drive recorder which runs permanently, one camera covers the back yard which obviously isn't an issue, but the two at the front by default capture stuff occurring on the street even though they're positioned with best coverage of his property in mind it's impossible not to get some of the street in as well. He has no signs or sought any permission etc. He has had the Police use the footage twice now for things that have happened on the street and not his property, both times various plod never questioned him once about signs or data protection, all they were interested in was how clear the footage was and whether it was useful, both times they identified someone's face and arrested them.

I would say it's either down to your local force's discretion or the data protection/filming the street laws aren't worth the paper they're written on.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/domestic-cctv-systems-guidance-for-people-using-cctv/

Some key messages:
Click to expand...

russel said:
Raspberry pi with motion eye software, enable motion detection. This is a very low cost solution, even if it’s out of WiFi range if you put one in the car you can still collect the pictures if something happens. Also it automatically deletes pictures after a user defined period, day to months.

If you want multiple cameras, use a pi zero W

https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w

Cheap cameras

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950459725.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.11e91e7buQSUpD&s=p&algo_pvid=650b1a32-808f-4914-b663-aeafcefc9306&algo_expid=650b1a32-808f-4914-b663-aeafcefc9306-0&btsid=561537c2-130a-4e14-96bc-d3f47b396ac8&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6,searchweb201603_52
Click to expand...

I am hopeless with IT stuff other than standard software (excel, word, outlook etc). That said I am amazed at the very low prices for this stuff. Could be the start of a post retirement hobby (though I would need to start at the most basic level). Did a Further Maths A level in June so need a different intellectual challenge now!
 
matt j said:
I've got a fair bit of experience with both aspects of your problem, I'll try and keep it brief.

Vehicle vandalism, my Mum suffered from this for about two years and it pretty much ruined both her car and several others (paint stripper) along a specific route down her street and others over quite a distance. The Police tried to catch them many times and even installed CCTV in my Mum's house for a period of time, with no success. They caught him eventually but purely down to Facebook and luck, and not Police work or CCTV. Take from that what you will.

CCTV/data protection aspect. My Dad has a hard wired 3 camera set up and a hard drive recorder which runs permanently, one camera covers the back yard which obviously isn't an issue, but the two at the front by default capture stuff occurring on the street even though they're positioned with best coverage of his property in mind it's impossible not to get some of the street in as well. He has no signs or sought any permission etc. He has had the Police use the footage twice now for things that have happened on the street and not his property, both times various plod never questioned him once about signs or data protection, all they were interested in was how clear the footage was and whether it was useful, both times they identified someone's face and arrested them.

I would say it's either down to your local force's discretion or the data protection/filming the street laws aren't worth the paper they're written on.
Click to expand...

Fair point on the compliance with DP regulations (though I suspect substantial compliance will be relatively easy in my case). Neighbours and local police should be happy too, for the reasons you mention. If the cost quote is reasonable and I proceed, I will tell the neighbours in advance as a courtesy
 
Still said:
RichardA you are most welcome.
If the Met' still offer the service easiest way to access is 'phoning your local and ask to speak to the crime prevention officer.
It was a couple of decades ago, but when I did the survey and other info' proved to be very useful.
Also made handy contacts in the CPO, and a locksmith/security installer specialist.
Click to expand...
Is this the officer that came round? He's not very good at breaking car windows.

 
after some episodes of vandalism and we do live in a difficult area for burglary we had a cctv professionally installed over a year ago . Been so helpful in many ways , watching out or that parcel coming to the door , helping to figure out how burglars got in to a neighbours house just last week , watching the cowboy builders do their business while we are away from the house . highly recommended . cost us under a grand with HD camera`s and worth every penny and more
 
RichardA said:
I am hopeless with IT stuff other than standard software (excel, word, outlook etc). That said I am amazed at the very low prices for this stuff. Could be the start of a post retirement hobby (though I would need to start at the most basic level). Did a Further Maths A level in June so need a different intellectual challenge now!
Click to expand...
If you can handle a Maths 'A' Level course then you'll have no problems with getting to grips with IT. Its like any new subject it takes a while to get your head around something new and different.

It depends where you want to go as there is an awful lot of stuff about. Me? I'm learning Deep learning using Python. The problem for me is not the subject itself but poor memory! So I have to write down what I have learnt.

The Pi is cheap but you can learn Raspbian by running it in a VM (virtual machine). Its faster too.

Cheers,

DV
 
RichardA said:
I am hopeless with IT stuff other than standard software (excel, word, outlook etc). That said I am amazed at the very low prices for this stuff. Could be the start of a post retirement hobby (though I would need to start at the most basic level). Did a Further Maths A level in June so need a different intellectual challenge now!
Click to expand...


If you can get an A level in further maths the pi camera won't be much of a problem.

https://randomnerdtutorials.com/install-motioneyeos-on-raspberry-pi-surveillance-camera-system/
 
matt j said:
I would say it's either down to your local force's discretion or the data protection/filming the street laws aren't worth the paper they're written on.
Click to expand...

You can virtually guarantee complaints by do gooders, so it’s worth following the recommendations. I dealt with loads of complaints of this nature.

I’ve not fully read the thread yet, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned ,but have the neighbours seen anything?
 
Andrew C! said:
You can virtually guarantee complaints by do gooders, so it’s worth following the recommendations. I dealt with loads of complaints of this nature.

I’ve not fully read the thread yet, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned ,but have the neighbours seen anything?
Click to expand...

Checked with neighbours. Nothing seen. Amusingly one of them had cameras installed a while ago on the cheap. When he tried to check back this evening he realised it wasn't working!
 
stevec67 said:
A camera operated by a private individual recording images of a public street is not admissible in court unless it is officially authorised, AIUI.
Click to expand...

Is that correct ?
Maybe there's a subtlety I'm missing, but does it mean that if I take pictures on my phone of a crime being committed in the street it's no use as evidence ?..or what about images from a cyclist's helmet cam ?
 
Bart said:
Is that correct ?
Maybe there's a subtlety I'm missing, but does it mean that if I take pictures on my phone of a crime being committed in the street it's no use as evidence ?..or what about images from a cyclist's helmet cam ?
Click to expand...
It's correct for house cctv AFAIK. There's a link earlier with guidance on the laws that apply. It covers data protection and all sorts. . This is different for hand held cameras for which normal privacy laws apply. It's not as simple as just screwing a camera to a wall and off you go.
 
it is more interesting than that though. Footage from one of mine was use by the police to help piece together the route a local burglar took, to demonstrate he was in the vicinity at the time. I had no signs up, they didn't ask and they didn't complain. I keep the footage from my 8 cameras for a period of 4 weeks, it is secure and only I can get at it.
 
The police won't be concerned about data protection issues, they won't ask and wouldn't pursue it even if they did. It's the ICO's business and, as their guidance says, the ICO won't be interested if you've made a decent stab at getting the basics right. At the most, you might expect a stern letter urging you to get your shit together. It's de minimis - they have much bigger fish to fry.

The only reason the police might find it relevant, I suspect, would be if there were any grounds to dismiss the footage as evidence because it was 'unlawful' (ie, not data protection compliant). I can't speak to that, perhaps Andrew C! can?
 
Bart said:
s that correct ?
Maybe there's a subtlety I'm missing, but does it mean that if I take pictures on my phone of a crime being committed in the street it's no use as evidence ?..or what about images from a cyclist's helmet cam ?
Click to expand...

I don't think this correct. The court would weigh up the value of the evidence, including how it was obtained.

An example here would be where the CCTV view has not been restricted, but the bit that should have been shows evidence of a substantive offence. Its quite right the CCTV should only cover the address its covering, but if it showed offences serious enough then the court would consider its probative value. ie using it to support the conviction of the offender v it being illegally used.

The CPS in such cases would usually decide against using it, but not in all cases. It depends on the type of offence being investigated.

In relation to the damage, are there any timing patterns for the repeat offences? Have you taken up other posters suggestion of speaking with the crime prevention officer?
 
No timing patterns that I can see.
Struggling to find a local crime prevention officer but will persist. I presume they still exist but with cuts its easy to see how these roles might get bundled with other full time police work.
 
Round here there is a bloke who has moved in and is a bully. Even intimidated his OAP next door neighbour from parking outside his own house so he could park one of his three cars.
He has installed several CCTV cameras on the front of his house that takes in his small frontage, the street and the houses opposite. He has commented to his neighbours opposite that he can see them in their house. There is no signage.
To whom can his neighbours complain?
 
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