advertisement


Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+24)?

Status
Not open for further replies.

eternumviti

Insufficient privileges to reply.
Not true actually. My position has always been that even Norway+ was worse than we have now, and that was the best option. If anybody could argue that there was a Leave option that would be better than Remain, I’d be all ears. And if anybody could argue convincingly that a Leave option was worth the losses, and could explain why, I’d be all ears. But all we’ve had is whistling in the dark and unicorns. Or your argument, which is that no matter how crap leaving is, the EU is crapper.

I can be persuaded, by decent arguments, but I haven’t found any. God knows I’ve been looking.

So you place the economics above the ethics. I don't. The gap won't be bridged.
 
There is no case that could have been made that would have convinced you

To me the case for leaving is clear. To you, there isn't one. There is an unbridgable gap between where you stand and where I stand, and that is because we are arguing about different things. To me it is about intangibles such as democracy, anthropology, ethics and morality, to your side of the debate it is about economics and practicalities.

Good luck finding ethics and morality when negotiating a trade deal with the US or China, it will be “sign here or fvck off”, as regards anthropology I am not aware of Morris dancing, monty python, the Beatles or any other way of life that has been banned from Brussels, any examples? and as far as democracy goes Britain seems to being led a merry dance into a war with Iran by the US, so much for taking back control.
 
News Flash: Raaab has cracked the problem “people are bored with pessimism”. Remember his “vim and vigour” he injected into negotiations?
So you place the economics above the ethics. I don't. The gap won't be bridged.
Arrant nonsense. It’s about as credible as your poor African farmer riff. Though maybe it’s a question of how low economics would have to go to get under your ethics.
 
So you place the economics above the ethics. I don't. The gap won't be bridged.
Not really. My ethics include being, and contributing to, part of a greater whole, and a wider community. The economics has always been secondary, and mainly a concern for the plight of those who will be hit hard. That’s ethics too, come to think of it.

Your ethics stem from an unshakable belief in the incurable rot at the core of the EU. Not sharing that belief is where we differ, and it’s a tad arrogant to claim that you have the monopoly on ethics.
 
Good luck finding ethics and morality when negotiating a trade deal with the US or China, it will be “sign here or fvck off”, as regards anthropology I am not aware of Morris dancing, monty python, the Beatles or any other way of life that has been banned from Brussels, any examples? and as far as democracy goes Britain seems to being led a merry dance into a war with Iran by the US, so much for taking back control.

I think you might have missed my point, Russell.
 
News Flash: Raaab has cracked the problem “people are bored with pessimism”. Remember his “vim and vigour” he injected into negotiations?

Arrant nonsense. It’s about as credible as your poor African farmer riff. Though maybe it’s a question of how low economics would have to go to get under your ethics.

Was that the 16% tariff on african oranges, a tax on the poor, to our federal masters.
 
And the verdict from the leaders of the other parties from the BBC? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-49073992
  • 20:05
    Recap: What did other party leaders say?
    This is how leaders of the UK's other political parties with MPs reacted to Mr Johnson's victory:

    Jeremy Corbyn (Labour): "Boris Johnson has won the support of fewer than 100,000 unrepresentative Conservative Party members by promising tax cuts for the richest, presenting himself as the bankers' friend, and pushing for a damaging no-deal Brexit. But he hasn't won the support of our country."

    Jo Swinson (Lib Dems): "Boris Johnson has finally got his hands on the keys to Number 10, but he has shown time and time again that he isn't fit to be the prime minister of our country. Whether it is throwing people under the bus or writing a lie on the side of one: Britain deserves better than Boris Johnson."

    Caroline Lucas (Green Party, no comment from leaders): "Around 100,000 Tory party members have inflicted on us a prime minister with a record of bigotry, racism, lying and incompetence. This is not democracy This is not in our name."

    Anna Soubry (The Independent Group for Change): "It's a very bleak day for our country. It's as stark as that. He's called the great charlatan for good reason. And he is absolutely shameless in his ability to shift his position."

    Nicola Sturgeon (SNP): "I congratulate Boris Johnson on his election as Tory leader and I will do everything possible to ensure that he respects Scotland's views and interests. However, I have profound concerns about the prospect of his premiership and it would be hypocritical not to be frank about these."

    Adam Price (Plaid Cymru): "During the most serious political crisis in decades, a clown is set to become prime minister. But this is no joke. People will soon realise, this isn’t as good as it gets. By electing Boris Johnson, the question of Welsh independence is not of ‘if’, but ‘when’."

    Arlene Foster (DUP): "Congratulations to Boris Johnson on becoming Conservative Party Leader. Look forward to discussing our shared objectives of strengthening the Union, delivering Brexit and restoring devolution."

    Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Fein): "We will continue to work with the Dublin government and the EU27 to protect Ireland from the catastrophic impact of the reckless Brexit being pursued by Boris Johnson and the hard Brexiteers."
 
Not really. My ethics include being, and contributing to, part of a greater whole, and a wider community. The economics has always been secondary, and mainly a concern for the plight of those who will be hit hard. That’s ethics too, come to think of it.

Your ethics stem from an unshakable belief in the incurable rot at the core of the EU. Not sharing that belief is where we differ, and it’s a tad arrogant to claim that you have the monopoly on ethics.

Tariffs are a tax on the poor in Africa and Europe. How does that square with your ethics.
 
Decameron, I've handed around a couple of trays of likes, although some were left behind in part 24.

I even tried to like myself, but it just won't happen.
I’m going to award you two more. I’m liking your sense of humour ( and your dogs). My new maxim is “hate Brexit, love the Brexiteer”. Do you break bread with Steve Baker btw?
 
Tariffs are a tax on the poor in Africa and Europe. How does that square with your ethics.
Well, when the greatbrittishhousewife gets her tariff free food from thepoorafricanfarmer, farmer Giles is going to be applauding her sensible buying choices. On the subject of the poor African farmer- tell us what your position is on the UK foreign aid budget. Take as much paper as you need.
 
Well, when the greatbrittishhousewife gets her tariff free food from thepoorafricanfarmer, farmer Giles is going to be applauding her sensible buying choices. On the subject of the poor African farmer- tell us what your position is on the UK foreign aid budget. Take as much paper as you need.

The usual EU can do no wrong deflection.
 
Not really. My ethics include being, and contributing to, part of a greater whole, and a wider community. The economics has always been secondary, and mainly a concern for the plight of those who will be hit hard. That’s ethics too, come to think of it.

Your ethics stem from an unshakable belief in the incurable rot at the core of the EU. Not sharing that belief is where we differ, and it’s a tad arrogant to claim that you have the monopoly on ethics.

I claim no monopoly.

Is the democratic vaccum throughout the EU institutions ethical? Is the corruption, the cronyism and the nepotism ethical? Is the grandstanding by, and the special tax and benefit breaks for, the Brussels 'élite' ethical? Is the cosying up to the global corporations ethical? Is the 3% and their 12% of useful idiots deployed to terrify or numb into submission the 40% ethical? Is the building of an armed empire without the consent of the people ethical? Is the built-in iniquity of the Euro in favour of German industry and illegal surplus ethical? The special dispensation given to France and Germany on the matter of deficits and surpluses? The evisceration of Greece, the technocratic takeover of Italy & Spain, the pregnant silence over Catalonia, the hounding of France and Ireland, and now of the UK? Are the razor-wire and the armed guards all around the EU's east and south-facing landward and seaward borders ethical?
 
I’m going to award you two more. I’m liking your sense of humour ( and your dogs). My new maxim is “hate Brexit, love the Brexiteer”. Do you break bread with Steve Baker btw?

No, never met him, and its is just possible that his register of interests is ugly.
 
Well that is not true is it? There has been a deal on the table for months.
Cav,

He said leaving deal.

The only other deal is May’s deal and one of the reasons May’s deal has been so decisively kicked out more than once is the belief of a significant number of MPs that it is not a leave deal, rather it is a keep us tied to the EU forever deal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top