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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+21)?

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Frankly mate, and I say this as someone who really likes Scotland, I don't count Scotland anymore as I'm fairly sure the nationalist/racist element will get their way soon and Scotland will be on its own.
That’s quite a projection. Brian, youve always been an English ethnic nationalist, even before Brexit was a thing. Now you have a voice for it and it’s called Brexit, is ok - it’s safe to own it now.
 
Frankly mate, and I say this as someone who really likes Scotland, I don't count Scotland anymore as I'm fairly sure the nationalist/racist element will get their way soon and Scotland will be on its own.

Without Scottish MPs Labour's chance of winning any election becomes a very remote possibility. Even Jeremy recognised this last year, "Seats in Scotland vital for Labour election win, says Jeremy Corbyn".

https://www.scotsman.com/news/polit...our-election-win-says-jeremy-corbyn-1-4787197
 
This is a question I have asked before when labour was doing a bit better in the polls than they are now. For those that believe labour will win the next general election with the current setup (Corbyn as leader and his faction in control) where do they think the support is going to come from? What type of people that are currently voting in large numbers for other parties are going to switch to voting for labour?
 
LOL! Given Labour have been moving steadily backwards against even Theresa May’s disastrous Conservative Party, i.e. they can’t score against a backdrop of the right-wing Brexit project, Windrush, Grenfell, thousands of homeless starving to death on the streets, 20% less police, disabled living in poverty etc etc etc WTF chance do they have if the Tories actually elect someone capable of putting a semi-coherent sentence together?! Ok, the Tories doing that is very far from a given looking at the current candidate list, but if Corbyn’s bunch of clowns are already losing loyal Labour voters like Lordsummit, Labour’s huge Jewish community etc and throwing out the only people who have actually won the party power in the past then they stand no chance whatsoever of attracting the floating voters in marginal seats that actually win general elections.

It really is Derek Hatton etc all over again...
You don’t like Labour, then. :D
 
Add me to that list. Ambiguity and frankly what looks like dishonesty over Brexit, a load of dated 70s class warrior stuff on the side, why would I want any of that? We accuse the Tories and Brexit boys of harking back to a past that never was, then Corbyn does the same. Not in my name.

As another lifetime Labour voter, I crossed over to the dark side and reluctantly voted LibDem. Felt quite sad.
 
If you can't accept by now - immediately after another election demonstrating the fact - that centrism across the whole of Europe is gone and not coming back then nothing I can say is going to change your mind. The choice is between systemic, egalitarian reform and the far right resistance to it.
Sheesh, if you can't even read a simple election result without spinning it like crazy to mean the opposite of what happened, what hope is there?

Here are the facts.
The three main winners in the European elections were:
1) the liberals of ALDE (UK LibDems, Macron, FDP, as evil a bunch of centrists as you can think of): up 36 seats or +52%. ALDE went from fourth to third largest group.
2) the far right ENF (Lega Norte, FN, Vlaams Bel., FPÖ): +22 seats or +61%, all from Lega Norte. The ENF is still only in 7th place.
3) the mainstream Greens: +17 seats, +32%. The Greens went from 6th to 4th largest.
The other far right group, EFDD (incl. Brexit Party) picked up 12 seats +28%, not exactly a landslide.

Losers:
1) The traditional pro-EU right (EPP) dropped 38 seats (-18%). Mediocre performance by the CDU, and the French LR got slaughtered by Macron and the FN.
2) the socialdems were down about the same: -32 seats or -17%. 11 of those seats were lost by the German SPD, 10 by Corbyn's Labour and 8 by the incredible vanishing French socialists, so the phenomenon is not confined to the UK.
3) The Eurosceptic ECR (True Finns, PiS, Tories, SWE Dem) lost 14 seats/18% and 3 places, now ranked 6th.
4) The nearest thing to your "systemic, egalitarian reform", the left wing GUE/NGL (die Linke, Syriza, assorted Communists, Sinn Fein etc.) lost 14 seats (27%): not exactly an endorsement.

Looking at it more broadly, the far right/populist lot made gains in some places and lost in others: gains in Italy (Salvini up big time but 5S down), small gains in the UK, flat in France (Le Pen actually lost one seat), down in Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, etc. Overall, far right and Eurosceptic parties picked up a few % but are still where they were last time: about a quarter of the vote, with such widely different agendas that it takes three different groups to accommodate their rivalries and dissensions. The harder left took a beating.

Centrism is alive and well in Europe. Things will get done in the EU by some coalition of moderate right, moderate left, centrist liberals and greens. If you can't see that, you haven't analysed the results enough.
 
As another lifetime Labour voter, I crossed over to the dark side and reluctantly voted LibDem. Felt quite sad.

Me too but I didn't vote, couldn't bring myself to vote for the SNP and there's no way on God's green earth I would vote for that shower of sh ! te (Libdems).

I think that I'll probably vote Green next time but frankly I cannot stand that Patrick Harvie prick so I probably won't.
 
Me too but I didn't vote, couldn't bring myself to vote for the SNP and there's no way on God's green earth I would vote for that shower of sh ! te (Libdems).

I think that I'll probably vote Green next time but frankly I cannot stand that Patrick Harvie prick so I probably won't.
I thought you were going to say “ frankly I can’t stand in Partick and say that”.
 
Jess Phillips on Alistair Campbell being expelled:

Yep I do have thoughts, he was expelled quicker than a man who threatened to kill me, quicker than a man in my CLP who denied the Holocaust, both are only still suspended.” (Twitter)
 
Your point? That’s old news.

The political landscape is changing.

We will see at the next election.

Old news? Corbyn said to win the next GE Labour had to win back targetted seats in Scotland, but there is no chance of this happening as support is dwindling not increasing. Labour got less than 10% of the votes in the EU elections, there are reports of a toxic culture in the party up here and Leonard is under pressure to resign. The political landscape has indeed changed and Labour is lost in the wilderness.
 
Old news? Corbyn said to win the next GE Labour had to win back targetted seats in Scotland, but there is no chance of this happening as it becomes more and more irrelevant. Labour got less than 10% of the votes in the EU elections, there are reports of a toxic culture in the party up here and Leonard is under pressure to resign. The political landscape has indeed changed and Labour is lost in the wilderness.

Indeed, my family voted SNP X 2, Green X 1 and one no voter (me).

Previously, as a family, we all voted Labour.
 
Without Scottish MPs Labour's chance of winning any election becomes a very remote possibility. Even Jeremy recognised this last year, "Seats in Scotland vital for Labour election win, says Jeremy Corbyn".

https://www.scotsman.com/news/polit...our-election-win-says-jeremy-corbyn-1-4787197

JC may want to take stock of the fact that Labour may have no MPs at all in Scotland after the next Election.

The SNP has taken Labour's place, and has shown that they are not entirely incompetent in government - not brilliant, but not complete f**k-ups.... which by modern UK standards means they are doing better than anyone else.
 
We'll see. A lot of people want a Socialist party rather than a fake.


You’re deluded, there’s as much chance of that happening as there is of Brexit being good for the country.

Jess Phillips on Alistair Campbell being expelled:

Yep I do have thoughts, he was expelled quicker than a man who threatened to kill me, quicker than a man in my CLP who denied the Holocaust, both are only still suspended.” (Twitter)

This is everything that’s wrong with Corbyn’s Labour Party in a sentence. He is the leader isn’t he? Aren’t leaders supposed to set the tone? Provide ahem, leadership? Constructive ambiguity is just bollocks, it’s being frightened to do something. Procrastination is what it is. Being frightened to stand up for what is right for fear of getting flack or alienating voters. Never mind that if you’re a ‘conviction politician’ you’re supposed to show some conviction, the man quite simply has no balls. Emma Thornberry is twice the leader he is. Get someone like her in charge and we have a chance of having a progressive Labour Party in charge. Corbyn may have a progressive agenda, but he’s so hopeless that he’d never carry it out. He’s weak, ineffectual and completely out of his depth. I’m sorry for voting for him as leader now.
 
Until a Labour government led us into an invasion of Iraq, I had voted Labour in every single council, Westminster, European and Scottish Parliament election from the age I was first allowed to vote. LibDem thereafter because I wasn’t going to vote for a party that was responsible for so many Iraqi and other deaths based on an outright lie.

2010 was when I began voting SNP- no longer prepared to vote for a party shoring up the Tories. I’ve liked what the SNP have done in Scotland, even taking a higher rate of income tax out of my pocket to support public spending. I like that they are a European Party and have opened the door to immigrants who contribute to our economy. Scotland needs 300,000 working immigrants to cover the aging demographic shift and above all they intend to keep Scotland’s place in the EU.
Remaining an EU citizen stands above all else for me and for so many people I know and I’m amazed how many of my friends and relatives have shifted their support to the SNP. There’s no going back now.
 
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