Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+21)?

[TheDecameron]

Not only did they kick her out, but they are making her play 'handmaiden host' to Trump. The woman has no dignity, I'd have told them to stuff that. Perhaps Brenda ordered it.

My toes are already curling just imagining May greeting Trump on the red carpet. I can exactly imagine him doing the cod sympathy just before trashing her to the media. It’s going to be very ugly- her debasement isn’t finished yet.

 

[SteveT]

The internecine fighting and back stabbing amongst the Tories will ensure that a Labour coalition will win the next GE IMHO and this will keep the Tories out of Office for a decade or so at least. The interesting point to focus on will be who the Labour Party choose to form a coalition with and what the cost will be to the respective parties concerned long term. I am thinking SDLP, LibDem coalition with the Tories etc. I think the old "safe" political system of Labour, Tory and Liberal Parties will be a thing of the past. There is going to be lots of deal making and horse trading and Governments will be coalitions of varying hues in the future.

 

[claire.foxx]

‘No matter who you vote for, the government always wins.’

They all come with honeyed promises and end up shitting on us all when they get into positions of authority. Everyone pinning their hopes on a broken system to magically start working again for the benefit of all — which it never does, which it never will.

 

[Seanm]

Even if the Labour National Executive performed live from the rooftop of 3 Saville Row singing about the evils of Brexit and that they were for remain for ever and apologising for three years of stupidity then I'd still not believe them, on the grounds of incompetence, incoherence, ineptitude and if that were not enough - not having the bollocks to lead.

I would be OK allowing the savaged and bloody remains of the Labour Party to vote along with the Liberal/Green/SNP coalition as long as they expect no crumbs of office or policy from their betters who were willing to say no to Brexit from the start. There are those in the Labour party yet abed who will hold their manhood cheap...

Remainers are likely going to have to choose between this kind of puritanism and a pragmatic solution to the problem.

 

[Seanm]

‘No matter who you vote for, the government always wins.’

They all come with honeyed promises and end up shitting on us all when they get into positions of authority. Everyone pinning their hopes on a broken system to magically start working again for the benefit of all — which it never does, which it never will.

Quite possible but there has never been a government in this country with a politics as radical as Corbyn's so precedent is not necessarily much of a guide. There is also machinery at work - austerity, the Hostile Environment - that needs to be dismantled as a matter of urgency because it is literally killing people on a daily basis. Frankly if that turned out to be all that a Corbyn government achieved it would still be worth walking through fire for.

 

[Yomanze]

Ah what a nice morning.

Tommy Robinson having a sob and a meltdown because he got less than 35,000 votes.

EU elections showing more people voting for Remain than Leave parties; Lib Dem and Greens combined getting more votes than The Brexit Party.

Tories absolutely slaughtered.

Corbyn opening up for a meaningful vote.

No mandate for no deal.

 

[ff1d1l]

The internecine fighting and back stabbing amongst the Tories will ensure that a Labour coalition will win the next GE IMHO and this will keep the Tories out of Office for a decade or so at least. The interesting point to focus on will be who the Labour Party choose to form a coalition with and what the cost will be to the respective parties concerned long term. I am thinking SDLP, LibDem coalition with the Tories etc. I think the old "safe" political system of Labour, Tory and Liberal Parties will be a thing of the past. There is going to be lots of deal making and horse trading and Governments will be coalitions of varying hues in the future.

You think a coalition would be labour lead? Interesting interpretation of numbers. Am I missing something?

 

[gassor]

I believe they will do so.

Is this simply wishful thinking or have you got a reason for saying this?

 

[gassor]

He's got no party. Longer term he might be able to develop some variation of Italy's 5 Star party (an acknowledged model) but he must know the appeal of something like that here would be sufficient to make him PM. Like Max I think if there's a GE over the next few months he'll agree to stand down on condition of the Tories adopting no deal as official policy, and wait to capitalise on the discontent following the outcome of that, which would be remain, Labour majority, kaput Tory party.

In other words, one requirement for a Labour majority is Corbyn getting the bullet?

 

[stephen bennett]

No mandate for no deal.

Sorry to rain on your happy day, but there is a mandate where it counts for the new PM—amongst Tory voters and members.

This will ensure we leave in October without a deal.

Johnson will blame the ensuing chaos on the EU.

The Conservatives will use it as an excuse for further austerity and cutting back of the state. It's win-win for them. There is no way they will vote to bring down their own Government.

Stephen

 

[Tony L]

Quite possible but there has never been a government in this country with a politics as radical as Corbyn's so precedent is not necessarily much of a guide.

LOL, what? I’m not seeing anything ‘radical’ here at all, just bumbling poorly-articulated generic centre-left policies including a little renationalisation of obviously failed privatised utilities, nuclear disarmament etc. This is just generic ‘old Labour’, the only new thing is the staggering levels of structural incompetence and the party’s utter inability to articulate any clear message on the key issues of the day. In reality Corbyn is just a tired old Michael Foot tribute act, and history will treat him just the same.

 

[TheDecameron]

Sorry to rain on your happy day, but there is a mandate where it counts for the new PM—amongst Tory voters and members.

This will ensure we leave in October without a deal.

Johnson will blame the ensuing chaos on the EU.

The Conservatives will use it as an excuse for further austerity and cutting back of the state. It's win-win for them. There is no way they will vote to bring down their own Government.

Stephen

That’s the grim reality- a Tory Party running for its life from The Brexit Party, will move right to match it but both of them will also turn on Corbyn’s Labour with cries of IRA/ Muslim terrorist supporter/ Marxists! All postered free of charge for them by Murdoch, the Barclays and Rothermere’s titles. If you voted for Brexit, you just signed a blank cheque for this lot. There’s not going to be any socialist Brexit waiting round the corner- that idea was strangled before it drew its first breath.

 

[TheDecameron]

Oh and Labour Brexit supporters- if you thought eight years of Austerity was bad, wait till you see what’s coming next. Sorry, no Paypal, no returns.

 

[gassor]

LOL, what? I’m not seeing anything ‘radical’ here at all, just bumbling poorly-articulated generic centre-left policies including a little renationalisation of obviously failed privatised utilities, nuclear disarmament etc. This is just generic ‘old Labour’, the only new thing is the staggering levels of structural incompetence and the party’s utter inability to articulate any clear message on the key issues of the day. In reality Corbyn is just a tired old Michael Foot tribute act, and history will treat him just the same.

Very good.

 

[jackbarron]

Labour won't lead If there is a coalition between the Lib Dems, SNP and them in future, judging by the European Election results. The current political system is so broken the old voting patterns are dead.

I won't vote for Labour and Corbyn at the next general election. I might vote for them in a coalition. I've been a socialist since I read Marx and Engels when I was a teenager, but I don't trust Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey and Seumas Milne etc. They have messed up massively over Brexit, the main issue of the last 45 years.

In the meantime 100,000 Tory Party members are going to choose the next Prime Minister, without a general election taking place.

Polly Toynbee's article in The Guardian says Remainers won these elections – and they’d win a second Brexit referendum. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...mainers-eu-elections-second-brexit-referendum

Leavers in all Parties are against a second referendum, or confirmatory vote, because they know they will lose. That's how f'd-up our political system is.

Jack

 

[tiggers]

That’s the grim reality- a Tory Party running for its life from The Brexit Party, will move right to match it but both of them will also turn on Corbyn’s Labour with cries of IRA/ Muslim terrorist supporter/ Marxists! All postered free of charge for them by Murdoch, the Barclays and Rothermere’s titles.

How true, was just marvelling at The Daily Mail this morning leading on a story not about their beloved Tories being hammered at the Euro elections, but as per usual, having a go at Corbyn and Labour. I detest the press in general, but have a special place in hell (as the current vernacular seems to dictate) for The Mail and any so called journalist who works for it.

 

[tiggers]

That's how f'd-up our political system is.

Jack

Yep, a system that is about to allow the future of the UK to be decided by 124,000 predominantly aging, male, wealthy, right wing Brexit fantasists located, for the most part, in the affluent SE of England. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious!

 

[TheDecameron]

Quite possible but there has never been a government in this country with a politics as radical as Corbyn's so precedent is not necessarily much of a guide. There is also machinery at work - austerity, the Hostile Environment - that needs to be dismantled as a matter of urgency because it is literally killing people on a daily basis. Frankly if that turned out to be all that a Corbyn government achieved it would still be worth walking through fire for.

It’s like T-60min on the Titanic and you’re onto the second draft of your letter to the management suggesting new menu ideas.

 

[Tony L]

I just caught the back-end of someone on Sky arguing that Corbyn started out on the platform of being a moral crusader/conviction politician and a democrat, but has ended up being neither. There is a lot of truth in that. Brexit has broken him just as surely as it did May.

 

[h.g.]

Quite possible but there has never been a government in this country with a politics as radical as Corbyn's so precedent is not necessarily much of a guide.

But we do know how effective the hard left have been at local level. We do know how effective a hard left controlled labour party has been in the past in opposition. We do know how effective this current hard left controlled labour party has been in opposition since the Corbyn surge. This is a much bigger negative than the positive effect of a few policies that should start fixing a few of the things that have become broken. Trust is a requirement if people are to vote for a party to implement significant change and not many people trust Corbyn and his faction. The LibDems are unlikely to do much good but most can trust them not to do much harm either and so when people are voting for the lesser of a set of evils they will pickup large numbers of votes.

So what can Corbyn's faction do to start building trust among those that have voted labour in the past but are now voting LibDem, Green, Change, Brexit Party,... I suggested demonstrating an ability to take action against their faith and in favour of pragmatism/evidence/the will of the majority of the centre left they need to vote for them if they are to govern. As the number of opportunities to do this are passed up and grow the more distrust will harden among those whose vote labour needs.

What else might Corbyn's faction do to persuade Tony to vote labour?

There is also machinery at work - austerity, the Hostile Environment - that needs to be dismantled as a matter of urgency because it is literally killing people on a daily basis. Frankly if that turned out to be all that a Corbyn government achieved it would still be worth walking through fire for.

There is no need to walk through fire when the conservatives party are in this disarray. All that is needed is to move back towards being a labour party that the centre left, centre and centre right in the UK can vote for. It is not exactly difficult but it does require publicly and believably loosening the grip of the hard left on the controls.