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Music First Audio

hifinutt said:
if you have a nice warm power amp and you pop an ultra transparent linear TVC like mfa with it , then it may sound really good . if you put a a very analytical power amp with it it may be too much perhaps ?

i do love the mfa stuff and i dont think i have ever had a power amp it didnt sound good with . but i did find that after my last V2 classic copper i really liked the glorious midrange of the modwright valve. the mfa was incredibly linear in presentation but very enjoyable
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The Lyngdorf SDA2175 is anything but warm and cuddly, its a fairly analytical class-D amp. By comparison it was the Krell KSA100S that was warmer sounding. But the difference between these two with the Music First wasn't just a subjective impression - the sound was broken with the Krell - no slam, no dynamics, no impact.

I'd like to understand what the objective measurable factors are that determine whether a given power amp will work well with a transformer passive as it certainly doesn't seem to be the same factors that apply when using a resistor based passive.
 
alanbeeb said:
The Lyngdorf SDA2175 is anything but warm and cuddly, its a fairly analytical class-D amp. By comparison it was the Krell KSA100S that was warmer sounding. But the difference between these two with the Music First wasn't just a subjective impression - the sound was broken with the Krell - no slam, no dynamics, no impact.

I'd like to understand what the objective measurable factors are that determine whether a given power amp will work well with a transformer passive as it certainly doesn't seem to be the same factors that apply when using a resistor based passive.
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Was the source the same? What was it? I'm no expert on electrickery but what is its output impedance? What's the input impedance of the Lyngdorf and the Krell? Does that make any sense? (I'm just beyond the limits of my undersanding here but trying to help and keen to learn).
 
The Krell has input impedance of 47kohms.
The Lyngdorf is 10kohms balanced and 100kohms unbalanced.

I don't know if this helps... but if we know the output impedance of the source then we might be able to do the Sherlock Holmes thing.

This is not in defence of the MFA - it doesn't need defending - it is simply to seek an explanation as to why/how the Krell sounded broken with is as the pre.
 
So I'm using the lyngdorf's balanced inputs @ 10Kohms. The source is either an Oppo HA-1 using balanced XLRs - its output impedance is (I think) 100 ohms. I am also using a Trilogy phono stage with 150 ohms output impedance

I can't properly remember what my source component was with the Krell - might have been the Sony SCD-1, which according to Stereophile's review has 33ohms RCA or 390 ohm balanced output impedance. But that shouldn't have been a problem for the 47K input on the Krell.

In the other example we had on this thread - great with a Quad 909 (20K Ohms input impedance), bad with Electrocompaniet AW180 (110K ohms RCA, 220K Ohms balanced). That's an unusually high input impedance for a solid state power amplifier - wondering if its had a zero added by mistake.
 
I am also slightly bewildered by the suggestion the MFA might be the cause of a power amp not performing. I have had MFA copper v1 and silver v1 and now have a silver v2. In all cases the MFA has enabled various power amps to perform wonderfully with glorious transparent top and mids and with solid and clear bass.

In comparison with active pre amps (solid state and valve) I have found that the active pre amps basically acted as tone controls and tended to emphasise various parts of the frequency response, typically upper bass/lower mids which gave a slightly ‘richer’ sound but at the expense of transparency. The MFA by contrast just passed everything straight through exactly as it came out of the dac etc. I personally prefer the MFA presentation.

I have had a situation where a valve power amp did not sound wonderful from the MFA (flabby bass/not tuneful mids) but it turned out that I was not feeding sufficient voltage into the MFA and so the MFA was not able to properly drive the power amp. All was solved by selecting a higher output (3v) from the dac.

So, to anyone who has had issues I would check the output voltage of the phono stage or other source. Also, is it possible that the character that you think of being Krell or other amp is actually more due to the tone control effect of active preamps and this disappears when a more truthful MFA is used?
 
TheFlash said:
Was the source the same? What was it? I'm no expert on electrickery but what is its output impedance? What's the input impedance of the Lyngdorf and the Krell? Does that make any sense? (I'm just beyond the limits of my undersanding here but trying to help and keen to learn).
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alanbeeb said:
The Lyngdorf SDA2175 is anything but warm and cuddly, its a fairly analytical class-D amp. By comparison it was the Krell KSA100S that was warmer sounding. But the difference between these two with the Music First wasn't just a subjective impression - the sound was broken with the Krell - no slam, no dynamics, no impact.

I'd like to understand what the objective measurable factors are that determine whether a given power amp will work well with a transformer passive as it certainly doesn't seem to be the same factors that apply when using a resistor based passive.
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Did the Krell do this while still going ‘loud enough’?
 
I almost took a punt on a MFA on eBay this week but didn’t because I’ve two fears- I might not have enough gain on some sources ( phono stage!) and that the steps would be too crude at higher levels and annoy me. I love the concept of getting active circuitry out of the way and have heard the benefit but for these kind of bucks, compatibility would have to be established before committing. So back to considering an active pre again.
 
TheDecameron said:
I almost took a punt on a MFA on eBay this week but didn’t because I’ve two fears- I might not have enough gain on some sources ( phono stage!) and that the steps would be too crude at higher levels and annoy me. I love the concept of getting active circuitry out of the way and have heard the benefit but for these kind of bucks, compatibility would have to be established before committing. So back to considering an active pre again.
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Well I took a punt on one on ebay last week, despite my previous experience, thinking that if it didn't work I'd not lose too much in selling it on..... glad I did because I think its a keeper now. Let me know if you want to try it sometime... BTW its your old Harbeths on the end of the Lyngdorf!
 
Would love to - wish I’d known! I may have passed the point of no return on an pre. Happy to do swap if you want try anything- did you mention phono stages recently? Anyway PM me.
 
TheDecameron said:
I almost took a punt on a MFA on eBay this week but didn’t because I’ve two fears- I might not have enough gain on some sources ( phono stage!) and that the steps would be too crude at higher levels and annoy me. I love the concept of getting active circuitry out of the way and have heard the benefit but for these kind of bucks, compatibility would have to be established before committing. So back to considering an active pre again.
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Try and hear one and then you will have the confidence to try for another one. I currently use my Dave direct into the power amp but I have not sold my MFA because it is just too good to part with.
 
agreed , they are exceptional pre amps . fanthorpes has a beautiful baby ref v2 which were i not playing with integrated amps , would be here right now . very well priced for a v2 . and a remote too . in my crazy days i once paid a grand to have a remote fitted to one of my mfa amps !!
 
TheDecameron said:
I almost took a punt on a MFA on eBay this week but didn’t because I’ve two fears- I might not have enough gain on some sources ( phono stage!) and that the steps would be too crude at higher levels and annoy me. I love the concept of getting active circuitry out of the way and have heard the benefit but for these kind of bucks, compatibility would have to be established before committing. So back to considering an active pre again.
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Are you in the UK? I’m sure if you asked John he’d arrange a demo for you to see if it’s compatible with your set up.
 
oh wow! that sounds epic. Are the pass labs feeding those Spendors?

btw I had to sell the icon audio 845 monos I got off you to fund divorce settlement. Building back up a system in a dedicated outbuilding. Onwards and upwards!
 
Yes, the pass labs feed the Spendor SP200.

I really liked those icon audio 845 amps, if I had noticed you selling them I might have bought them back off you!
 
I miss their liquid midrange. Bloke from Surrey bought them, he used an mbl cd player, audio research pre amp into some nice proacs.
 
hifinutt said:
agreed , they are exceptional pre amps . fanthorpes has a beautiful baby ref v2 which were i not playing with integrated amps , would be here right now . very well priced for a v2 . and a remote too . in my crazy days i once paid a grand to have a remote fitted to one of my mfa amps !!
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That’s the one I had my eye on before I sprung for a ss pre
 
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