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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+14)?

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Ah, I thought you were listing the countries that are happy to support imposing austerity on others.

There's only one EU country where austerity is an ideological instrument designed specifically to decimate the state.

It will be non-EU soon, enabling the Conservatives to dismantle the state, health and welfare systems further, using the predicted falls in GDP and desperate needs for trade deals as an excuse.

Stephen
 
Ah, I thought you were listing the countries that are happy to support imposing austerity on others.
No. But we could do political parties that are, if you like. How about ones that collude and enable a right wing agenda that all reputable economists agree will inflict severe economic damage on a country, for short term perceived party political gain?
 
No. But we could do political parties that are, if you like. How about ones that collude and enable a right wing agenda that all reputable economists agree will inflict severe economic damage on a country, for short term perceived party political gain?

Since I'm not a member, perhaps that's better left to others - if it's not been flogged to death already!
 
May to "renegotiate" the backstop, they are done negotiating Mrs May, hello, anyone home? Not really the point though is it folks, transparency has never been so blindingly clear.
Viva la revolution :D
 
Brown bailed out the banks. Not the EU. The EU is a separate issue, and I'd say the EU's most important agenda is not austerity, but the cohesion through trade and free movement of members peoples of it's member states. The decision to pass on the cost of the bank bailout to the sections of society least able to afford it is a tory one, national, and not from the EU.
Now you might counter with the argument that the IMF and pressure to maintain a flawless international credit rating was enforced and perpetrated as some sort of EU masterplan - the truth is we were conned into voting for that, and the credit rating turned out to be not very important as it has slipped twice, with little remark, since the brexit tory-plan-with-labour-enabling tossfest.
No, austerity is a home grown confection, and your assertion that it originates in the EU is lexit bollocks.

Yet more total cognitive dissonance.

The EU's central project, and you can argue this one till the cows come home, is the political, economic, fiscal and monetary unification of its member states. Free movement (of goods, services, capital and workers) is part of this project, as is EMU. The latter, in its manifestation as the Eurozone, lays down clear rules (which are applicable to all member states, in or out of the EZ), amongst the most important of which decree that member states may not have a budget deficit which exceeds 3% of GDP, and the debt/GDP ratio should not be higher than 60%. In the case of EZ states exceeding these levels, the EC calls for austerity measures in order to limit the budgets on the pain of substantial fines. Following the financial crash of 2007/8 and the sovereign debt crisis in the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain) countries and Cyprus, the EU 'troika' (the IMF, ECB and EC) imposed harsh austerity measures in return for bailout lifelines. The austerity drive spread to countries beyond the PIIGS which were also caught up in the financial crisis - France, Germany and the UK. Austerity was virtually de-rigeur across Europe, and it was very much an EU policy. ECB QE, which allowed interest rates to fall to 0%, helped the bailout countries in terms of contributing towards meeting the austerity demands (though usually also at the price of much higher debt/GDP ratios), and all have now voted in anti-austerity governments which have introduced more generous budgets. It is widely argued that EU austerity ceased some years ago, though it remains a central tenet of German and EC policy. Many EU/EZ countries exceed the EU's budget deficit rules, often by substantial degrees (Italy debt/GDP is 131%, Greece 170%, France 97%, even Germany at 64%), and with budgets being pushed towards or beyond the 3% limit and the ECB closing down QE, it is pretty difficult not to argue that with the kinds of contractions that are looming or actually happening in global trade the EU is going to be hit with a new wave of sovereign debt emergencies that, with no further ammunition in the ECB's fiscal warchest, may make the last lot look fairly quaint and old fashioned.
 
A *sense* of normality in the Commons tonight, with Labour MP Yvette Cooper's amendment thought to have the backing of most Labour MPs, and Tory MP Sir Graham Brady's amendment thought to have the backing of most Tories (including the ERG) plus the DUP, though some Tory remainers (eg. Dr Sarah Wollaston) have already come out wholly against.
 
A *sense* of normality in the Commons tonight, with Labour MP Yvette Cooper's amendment thought to have the backing of most Labour MPs, and Tory MP Sir Graham Brady's amendment thought to have the backing of most Tories (including the ERG) plus the DUP, though some Tory remainers (eg. Dr Sarah Wollaston) have already come out wholly against.

The advantage of Brady to the Tories is that it can be read to mean pretty much anything. The ERG is meeting later to discuss it's position but they probably will support anything that 'kicks the can (further) down the road.' Cooper will be interesting...
 
Yet more total cognitive dissonance.

The EU's central project, and you can argue this one till the cows come home, is the political, economic, fiscal and monetary unification of its member states. Free movement (of goods, services, capital and workers) is part of this project, as is EMU. The latter, in its manifestation as the Eurozone, lays down clear rules (which are applicable to all member states, in or out of the EZ), amongst the most important of which decree that member states may not have a budget deficit which exceeds 3% of GDP, and the debt/GDP ratio should not be higher than 60%. In the case of EZ states exceeding these levels, the EC calls for austerity measures in order to limit the budgets on the pain of substantial fines. Following the financial crash of 2007/8 and the sovereign debt crisis in the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain) countries and Cyprus, the EU 'troika' (the IMF, ECB and EC) imposed harsh austerity measures in return for bailout lifelines. The austerity drive spread to countries beyond the PIIGS which were also caught up in the financial crisis - France, Germany and the UK. Austerity was virtually de-rigeur across Europe, and it was very much an EU policy. ECB QE, which allowed interest rates to fall to 0%, helped the bailout countries in terms of contributing towards meeting the austerity demands (though usually also at the price of much higher debt/GDP ratios), and all have now voted in anti-austerity governments which have introduced more generous budgets. It is widely argued that EU austerity ceased some years ago, though it remains a central tenet of German and EC policy. Many EU/EZ countries exceed the EU's budget deficit rules, often by substantial degrees (Italy debt/GDP is 131%, Greece 170%, France 97%, even Germany at 64%), and with budgets being pushed towards or beyond the 3% limit and the ECB closing down QE, it is pretty difficult not to argue that with the kinds of contractions that are looming or actually happening in global trade the EU is going to be hit with a new wave of sovereign debt emergencies that, with no further ammunition in the ECB's fiscal warchest, may make the last lot look fairly quaint and old fashioned.

The Republicans don't want to pay tax for poor Americans. But you expect Germany to have an open cheque book for all of Europe ? ps UK debt/GDP was 87% in 1Q18 but I imagine that is higher now and rising.
The low interest rates have certainly helped the PIIGS : the first two have dug themselves out. Spain is not too bad. Italy GDP is significantly under-reported. Lets not talk about Greece for 10 years.
Many countries all over the world have economic problems and the EU is not a panacea. But I'd rather be in Europe than anywhere else.
 
The Republicans don't want to pay tax for poor Americans. But you expect Germany to have an open cheque book for all of Europe ? ps UK debt/GDP was 87% in 1Q18 but I imagine that is higher now and rising.
The low interest rates have certainly helped the PIIGS : the first two have dug themselves out. Spain is not too bad. Italy GDP is significantly under-reported. Lets not talk about Greece for 10 years.
Many countries all over the world have economic problems and the EU is not a panacea. But I'd rather be in Europe than anywhere else.

I didn't say I expected anything as regards Germany and chequebooks, or Republicans.

PS I'm perfectly aware of UK debt/GDP, but this was about EU/EZ austerity.
 
Nigel Dodds, take a bow...

"The idea of taking no deal off the table is more likely to lead to a no deal outcome than anything else."

Tremendous.
 
According to Tony Connelly “ A senior EU source has told rte news that during a phone call at 12pm Brussels time Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker told Theresa May there would be no reopening of the Irish backstop or the Withdrawal Agreement.“ https://mobile.twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1090302993801588737

So, an hour before she told the Commons to vote for the Brady amendment, the ever mendacious May knew full well that the EU won’t budge on this. Planning to go out on no deal and blame the EU, just to keep the Tory party together? I can’t think of any other explanation.
 
I enjoyed the BBC2 program on the EU last night. Simply highlights that it doesn’t work.

An English PM ducking out of influential EU meeting groups and then making stupid demands to appease the swivel eyed loons on his own back bench without first lobbying or gathering any support? I agree it doesn't work and was cringeworthy.

May doesn't seem to have learned much either. Still, roll on no-deal - if only there was a way to direct the subsequent economic damage just to the 52% who voted for it. Oops maybe May will do that to, well the poorer ones anyway.
 
According to Tony Connelly “ A senior EU source has told rte news that during a phone call at 12pm Brussels time Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker told Theresa May there would be no reopening of the Irish backstop or the Withdrawal Agreement.“ https://mobile.twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1090302993801588737

So, an hour before she told the Commons to vote for the Brady amendment, the ever mendacious May knew full well that the EU won’t budge on this. Planning to go out on no deal and blame the EU, just to keep the Tory party together? I can’t think of any other explanation.

Connelly has been pretty much impeccable with his EU sources. So this is highly likely to be true.

The economy is being sacrificed to keep the Tories together. They will stomach a 'no deal', they won't stomach a split.
 
Call me thick but I still don't fully understand the backstop or why it's such a contentious issue for the Irish?

I'm aware it means we stay in the customs union until a deal is sorted out, but what is the big hullabaloo all about and why are the Irish so dead against it? I can't see where it mentions a hard border or how it leads to one.
 
Call me thick but I still don't fully understand the backstop or why it's such a contentious issue for the Irish?

I'm aware it means we stay in the customs union until a deal is sorted out, but what is the big hullabaloo all about and why are the Irish so dead against it? I can't see where it mentions a hard border or how it leads to one.

The backstop just says if there isn't an agreement then we stay in the current customs union to ensure there is no hard border. If there were no backstop then without an agreement when the UK leaves the customs union there will be a hard border in Ireland. ET's Magic Borders (TM) notwithstanding.

And more than that it's the EU26 sticking up for a small member country. The Brexiteers thought (in as much as they think about anything) that the EU would just throw them under the bus because German cars or something.
 
Call me thick but I still don't fully understand the backstop or why it's such a contentious issue for the Irish?

I'm aware it means we stay in the customs union until a deal is sorted out, but what is the big hullabaloo all about and why are the Irish so dead against it? I can't see where it mentions a hard border or how it leads to one.

The backstop is actually popular in Ireland and Northern Ireland. It’s the Eurosceptics who don’t like it. A better description of it would be safety net. It means there won’t be a hard border in Ireland if the UK and EU can’t agree a trade deal.
 
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