Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+11)?

[matthewr]

Parliament needed to force an election, not happened, now May is here for 12 months so basically we are stuck with a no deal Brexit under a Tory government as I cannot see any other option, she will not cancel Brexit, she will not offer a referendum, her deal will not get through, it's basic maths.

Now I am even more confused because a) that means Labour's silence is partly to blame (which is the point many have been making) and b) basically, you have given up!

A strong opposition would be making a case that we must avoid No Deal or May Deal at all costs. It is certainly not to late for a cross party national movement to take down May's government and avoid disaster in March.

 

[Lee T]

...and Parliament, of which Labour is a large part, have done nothing to prevent that.

What could they have done, her party decided to keep her, little anyone else could have done.

 

[ff1d1l]

Absolutely. Some of the more ardent Remainers are living in a fantasy world if they think a second referendum will be a pushover for them. I can easily see it backfiring spectacularly.

Incidentally, this kind of polling data is also the key to understanding Labour's position - many activists are extremely nervous about coming out strongly in favour of Remain.

As for the cliche that Labour ought to be 20 points ahead now it shows a surprising inability to join the dots: Brexit can't be both "the most important political issue in a generation" and have zero impact on traditional voting patterns. If, in a parallel unverse where the referendum never happened, the Tories had to stand on thir record in government, Labour could indeed hammer them and I'd expect to see this reflected in the polls. Unfortunately, we live in the real world where seemingly intelligent, liberal-minded posters here describe Corbyn as "wittering on" about poverty at PMQs - with that kind of attitude, the polling deadlock is no great mystery.

Fantasy or not, whatever the result needs it as the original ref was democratically flawed and has no legitimacy.

 

[Lee T]

It is certainly not to late for a cross party national movement to take down May's government and avoid disaster in March.

So why isn't this happening & how do they go about this.
I havn't given up, just facing the reality of the situation.

I would say a cross party national movement is a bit of a stretch considering our political history.

 

[Tony L]

Also worth repeating that the key aspects of being an opposition party is both opposing and producing a credible counter-argument. Labour simply are not doing this with their attempts to face all ways at once and spouting magic unicorn gibberish.

 

[matthewr]

Absolutely. Some of the more ardent Remainers are living in a fantasy world if they think a second referendum will be a pushover for them. I can easily see it backfiring spectacularly.

Incidentally, this kind of polling data is also the key to understanding Labour's position - many activists are extremely nervous about coming out strongly in favour of Remain.

As for the cliche that Labour ought to be 20 points ahead now it shows a surprising inability to join the dots: Brexit can't be both "the most important political issue in a generation" and have zero impact on traditional voting patterns. If, in a parallel unverse where the referendum never happened, the Tories had to stand on thir record in government, Labour could indeed hammer them and I'd expect to see this reflected in the polls. Unfortunately, we live in the real world where seemingly intelligent, liberal-minded posters here describe Corbyn as "wittering on" about poverty at PMQs - with that kind of attitude, the polling deadlock is no great mystery.

I don't pretend it's easy, but there are many ways to move forward. Maintaining a sort of gnomic silence in the face of a national crisis would be about 137th on my list of possible approaches.

 

[Seeker_UK]

What could they have done, her party decided to keep her, little anyone else could have done.

How about a motion of no confidence when numerous MPs stood up saying they'd support one?

 

[Lee T]

Fantasy or not, whatever the result needs it as the original ref was democratically flawed and has no legitimacy.

Would you accept a no deal result, which is a very realistic proposition.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Yup. Basically, people don't give enough of a shit about the devastation caused by Tory/Lib-Dem austerity to get behind Labour.

There won't be a GE before Brexit happens, so what's the plan? How are we even supposed to vote for Labour, assuming for the moment we might be persuaded to hold our noses and do so to prevent the Tories getting in again because a post-Brexit Tory government would just be too awful to contemplate.

Or is that the plan?

 

[Lee T]

How about a motion of no confidence when numerous MPs stood up saying they'd support one?

What happened? May is still here, her deal is still here until the end of January, how can she get away with stalling this way, surely if parliament could stop this transparent tactic they would.

 

[ff1d1l]

Would you accept a no deal result, which is a very realistic proposition.

With known outcomes on the table instead of fairy dust, and no Aaron Banks/Putin interference, if it went that way I'd accept it.

 

[TheDecameron]

Bottom line, Brexit will devastate many here

And you voted for it, me ol’ darlin. You’ll be surprised how few escape the damage from it.

 

[Stunsworth]

Labour don't have a plan.
I want an opposition with a plan.
I am not represented by either of the main UK parties.

Labour’s plan seems to be do nothing and wait for the Tories to implode. They may well implode, but what they’re not going to do is bring the government down and force an election. Neither are the DUP going to vote against the Tories and risk a Labour government - despite the evidence that DUP -voters- are nervous about a no deal Brexit.

So, given that the EU have vetoed May’s plan, the least worst option I can see is that the negotiations are extended beyond the end of March, but that’s only kicking a well kicked can further down the road.

 

[matthewr]

So why isn't this happening

Well, in a word, Corbyn. If he had, you know, an actual policy then some movement on a cross party deal and a no confidence vote could easily lead to movement. We know there are people on the Tory side (Grieve, Sourby, Liddington, Clarke, etc) that are every bit as exasperated as the rest of us and would act in the national interest if the situation were handled skillfully.

 

[Lee T]

There won't be a GE before Brexit happens, so what's the plan? How are we even supposed to vote for Labour, assuming for the moment we might be persuaded to hold our noses and do so to prevent the Tories getting in again because a post-Brexit Tory government would just be too awful to contemplate.

Or is that the plan?

Unless, as Mathew indicates, parliament stand up in unison, we are heading for a May no deal, her deal will be rejected, there will be no ref,will be no ending of Brexit under May,then of course, come the next election, many here are proposing a protest vote against Corbyn's Labour, could not make this up.

 

[Lee T]

Well, in a word, Corbyn. If he had, you know, an actual policy then some movement on a cross party deal and a no confidence vote could easily lead to movement. We know there are people on the Tory side (Grieve, Sourby, Liddington, Clarke, etc) that are every bit as exasperated as the rest of us and would act in the national interest if the situation were handled skillfully.

What would this Corbyn policy be, I can guess but humour me.

 

[Stunsworth]

What could they have done, her party decided to keep her, little anyone else could have done.

The problem with that is that it implies that the only role of an opposition is to sit on their hands until their next election.

 

[Lee T]

And you voted for it, me ol’ darlin. You’ll be surprised how few escape the damage from it.

Yup, all down to me is Brexit,line up, line up, bring yer pitchforks, or maybe cancel my vote & Brexit goes away.

 

[matthewr]

What would this Corbyn policy be, I can guess but humour me.

Whatever he thinks is best for the country. Which is, well, his job.

 

[notaclue]

Labour don't have a plan.
I want an opposition with a plan.
I am not represented by either of the main UK parties.

That is their plan of action to bring down the government.

They don't have a Brexit plan beyond this https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

An umpty-hundred-page PDF file setting out their Brexit plan in forensic detail? Nope. Fraid not. That is nowhere to be seen on their website. You'll have to be content with this from Mr Corbyn: "There will be some who will tell you that Brexit is a disaster for this country and some who will tell you that Brexit will create a land of milk and honey. The truth is that it’s in our hands: Brexit is what we make of it together."

I do wonder whether their lack of realistic Brexit plan might have an impact on just how keen they are to implement their plan on brining down the government (even if it may well not work). Do Labour really want to be the ones who take over just in time to f**k-up Brexit and thus the economy?