Upgrade from 30yr old Epos ES14s

[pjdowns]

ES14 are quite possibly the worst speaker to ever pass through my room. After all the hype on pfm i was genuinely expecting something special.

Interesting comment, maybe they didn't suit your taste, I personally would say the same about ever single Naim speaker I have ever heard.

This is what makes people asking for recommendations difficult and why you should always take reviews with a pinch of salt, as they are not using your ears

 

[YNWOAN]

Dull maybe was a little oversell, maybe a little unbright, the high end was a little lacking.

Still, very surprised you thought that. Had you replaced the tweeter cap? the original is a small electrolytic and if that dries up the ESR will rise effectively muting the top end.

_____

I would say the ES14 sounds profoundly different depending on how the ports are stuffed. Personally I couldn't live with them if the ports were left open - far too much 'ported' quality with the bass out of time. I ended up with them away from walls, on super rigid stands and with the ports fully filled with quite dense foam. This tightens up the bass beyond all recognition but some may expect more wallop. IBL's are quite the opposite and always frustrated me by sounding like a three way speaker with the bass units unwired.

 

[Gaius]

Still, very surprised you thought that. Had you replaced the tweeter cap? the original is a small electrolytic and if that dries up the ESR will rise effectively muting the top end.

_____

I would say the ES14 sounds profoundly different depending on how the ports are stuffed. Personally I couldn't live with them if the ports were left open - far too much 'ported' quality with the bass out of time. I ended up with them away from walls, on super rigid stands and with the ports fully filled with quite dense foam. This tightens up the bass beyond all recognition but some may expect more wallop. IBL's are quite the opposite and always frustrated me by sounding like a three way speaker with the bass units unwired.

Same thing you say about Kans, lots of fast tight bass from both round here and a very engaging listen.

My guess is you are something of a bass monster always adding a massive sub!

Each to their own, but all that plod; no thanks.

 

[Gaius]

...same goes with the Reference 3a Veena that Simon recommended earlier - indeed these dinky floorstanders will be different, possibly, more like standmounts in their sound.

Indeed, in general in a normal domestic environment I would agree regarding stand mounts, I also like the speed of delivery.

 

[pjdowns]

Still, very surprised you thought that. Had you replaced the tweeter cap? the original is a small electrolytic and if that dries up the ESR will rise effectively muting the top end.

_____

I would say the ES14 sounds profoundly different depending on how the ports are stuffed. Personally I couldn't live with them if the ports were left open - far too much 'ported' quality with the bass out of time. I ended up with them away from walls, on super rigid stands and with the ports fully filled with quite dense foam. This tightens up the bass beyond all recognition but some may expect more wallop. IBL's are quite the opposite and always frustrated me by sounding like a three way speaker with the bass units unwired.

I didn't replace the tweeter cap, maybe I should have thought about it, I have sold them now.

Personally, I disliked the speakers with the bungs in, they sounded bass light and thin, with them out they worked marvelously.

Again I think this is personal taste.

 

[YNWOAN]

I didn't replace the tweeter cap, maybe I should have thought about it, I have sold them now.

Personally, I disliked the speakers with the bungs in, they sounded bass light and thin, with them out they worked marvelously.

Again I think this is personal taste.

Not entirely personal taste in that we don't necessarily disagree. I ended up using mine with a Rel Stadium sub and using Nap135's to drive them - both to help counter the very issue you describe whilst maintaining the tight bass I wanted.

The cap that Epos used to cross the tweeter may well have aged (given the age of the speakers) in the manner described as it was an electrolytic. Changing it for a film cap is very easy to do too.

 

[Mr Tibbs]

ES14 are quite possibly the worst speaker to ever pass through my room. After all the hype on pfm i was genuinely expecting something special.

To be fair Gary, you've probably had some really good speakers pass through your room

But in essence, I agree. What's wrong with ES14s ? Nothing at all really... but therein lies the problem - they try to be all things to all men and as such fail to do the one thing we're all looking for, which is to excel at something important to us as an individual. For the original asking price they were good value all rounders, but excellence lies elsewhere.

Mr Tibbs

 

[JezmondTutu]

To be fair Gary, you've probably had some really good speakers pass through your room

But in essence, I agree. What's wrong with ES14s ? Nothing at all really... but therein lies the problem - they try to be all things to all men and as such fail to do the one thing we're all looking for, which is to excel at something important to us as an individual. For the original asking price they were good value all rounders, but excellence lies elsewhere.

Mr Tibbs

I've heard them sound very average and I've heard them sound amazing - like many other speakers to be honest.

 

[pjdowns]

Not entirely personal taste in that we don't necessarily disagree. I ended up using mine with a Rel Stadium sub and using Nap135's to drive them - both to help counter the very issue you describe whilst maintaining the tight bass I wanted.

The cap that Epos used to cross the tweeter may well have aged (given the age of the speakers) in the manner described as it was an electrolytic. Changing it for a film cap is very easy to do too.

I tried them with many different subs and just found they didn't match well at all, resulting in a detached bass sound.

 

[pjdowns]

To be fair Gary, you've probably had some really good speakers pass through your room

But in essence, I agree. What's wrong with ES14s ? Nothing at all really... but therein lies the problem - they try to be all things to all men and as such fail to do the one thing we're all looking for, which is to excel at something important to us as an individual. For the original asking price they were good value all rounders, but excellence lies elsewhere.

Mr Tibbs

For me they did other things ok to well but their vocals were out of this world for their price, as long as they were driven by competent amps.

To get equal, let alone better vocal performance, you'd have to spend many times more.

 

[Pine Marten]

Thanks for the ongoing discussion, especially from some of you guys with loads of experience and knowledge, whose opinions I trust. I won't name you, I don't want to cause embarrasment! I do think that the ES14 is a good all rounder, with flaws, which I have been happy to put up with, because they do do certain very important (to me) things well. I just want to see if, 30 years on, I can do better, without spending silly, in my eyes, amounts of money. Hopefully away to Moorgate Acoustics tomorrow for a listen to some Spendor A2 Dynaudio Amphion and Rega RX3 and 5. I wonder if my plastic will be feeling the strain in 24hours?

 

[Conan]

Keep us posted with your findings

 

[MVV]

I'm a big fan of 11s and 14s having had several pairs. My favourite pair were an early set with glued in bungs. The treble let them down and I never did the mods mentioned above. I moved on to Neat. In your shoes I would listen to a pair of MFS Ultimatum stand mounts.

 

[pjdowns]

Thanks for the ongoing discussion, especially from some of you guys with loads of experience and knowledge, whose opinions I trust. I won't name you, I don't want to cause embarrasment! I do think that the ES14 is a good all rounder, with flaws, which I have been happy to put up with, because they do do certain very important (to me) things well. I just want to see if, 30 years on, I can do better, without spending silly, in my eyes, amounts of money. Hopefully away to Moorgate Acoustics tomorrow for a listen to some Spendor A2 Dynaudio Amphion and Rega RX3 and 5. I wonder if my plastic will be feeling the strain in 24hours?

Just enjoy yourself listening to different models (which it sounds as though you have planned).

Spendor might suit you, if you like the overall characteristics of the Epos ES14. I found them to be excellent contenders.

The reason for finally choosing the Focal's was that I bought them from a fellow forum member second-hand.

 

[Pine Marten]

Well an interesting 3 hours at Moorgate Acoustics. Nice staff, who were very happy to leave me alone and play. They had set up a top flight LP12 the lateset model Nait, and a Rega Apollo. First speakers up Rega RX3. Disappointed. Closed in sound, very muted bass, hollow uninvolving portrayal. Next, RX5, better, more bass authority, better ambience, some space around performers, but again, not very involving portrayal. Then some Spendor A5r. Much better, a fair degree of air around instruments, nice vocals, beguiling mids and highs, better dynamics. Brought the demo pair home on approval, money back if not happy. OK, if the ES14's were to blow up, I could live with these Spendors. Being the demo pair, I would guess they have run in by now but they are sounding better after a couple of hours. But, I'm afarid the ES14s are just more MUSICAL, ok, the Spendor's highs are less ragged, the sound is more homogenous the mids are beguiling, but, for me at least, the ES14's are still the winners. I'm glad I've tried some different speakers, but I guess I'll hve to dig much deeper into the pocket to beat them. Music used, Paulo Nutini, Sunny Side Up, CD, Elvis Costello, North, CD, Travis, Everything At Once, LP, Mini Mekons with Robbie Fulks, Jura, LP.

 

[Pine Marten]

OK, plan B. Qudos boards and psu boards on order from Les W. I've found the invoice for the Denon DL110, I've had it 7 years, so guess its due for replacement. new thread methinks. Thanks everyone for your input. If a pair of late SBL's turn up locally in v g c at a good price I will take a punt, after all, will be easy enough to move on if not suited!

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Still think you should get a listen to Russell Ks, though.

 

[BlueYeti]

Still think you should get a listen to Russell Ks, though.

I'll second that. Well worth a listen.

 

[YNWOAN]

....the ES14's are still the winners. I'm glad I've tried some different speakers, but I guess I'll have to dig much deeper into the pocket to beat them. Music used, Paulo Nutini, Sunny Side Up, CD, Elvis Costello, North, CD, Travis, Everything At Once, LP, Mini Mekons with Robbie Fulks, Jura, LP.

This very much parallels my own experience looking for ES14 replacements. When one of my bass drivers developed an irreparable buzz I looked for replacements up to £2K and was so disappointed by the performance offered I bought another pair of ES14's to use as spares.

 

[oldius]

My personal view is that things haven't moved on where speakers are concerned. I would advise hosting a bake-off to listen to different speakers in your own home and system. You may well be surprised at how well your current speakers hold up.

My current speakers are the NS1000M and JBL 4312B Control Monitors. Both more than 30 years old but I use them in preference to a large number of modern, high-end designs I have heard.