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Elsdon Wonfor Audio LS-25 speaker cables

YNWOAN said:
It's not that I don't believe in cable differences, I do - but I've never heard any evidence to support the belief that cables burn in. None of the many ones I have tried have altered at all with the passing of time.
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Me neither, but I have slowly adjusted to the new balance over time...
 
Re cable burn in, it's actually the dielectric that "burns in" or reaches optimum charge or whatever it is that's going on. PTFE (Teflon) demonstrates this phenomena most readily, to the point that if you leave a cable unused you need to burn it in again, same with Teflon capacitors. Same for other dielectrics just more noticeable with Teflon. If you use cables with PVC dielectrics all bets are off! Have you wondered why there are no PVC capacitors?

While the vast majority of the cables out there are much of a muchness, there are some that offer huge performance upgrades, problem is finding them! In the 90s I remember doing some comparisons with a bunch of the best interconnects of the era, not much to choose between most of them (and I think this explains why people claim not to hear much in the way of meaningful differences) However there was one design that sounded so good that it sounded like an expensive amplifier upgrade, really jaw dropping and impossible to miss. There was another that was new to the market, with radical technology while receiving really very good reviews, but I, and everyone else who heard the comparison between these two cables hated it!
What I found most interesting was that these comparisons were carried out with Audio Research, Krell and Mark Levinson Amplifiers. When this remarkable cable was used with a Naim NAC52 NAP135s Amplifiers the performance advantage just evaporated. I'll let you ponder why that might be. ;)
 
That could explain it then, apparently every strand of whatever is inside the LS-25 has a its own coating of 'something' which has to be removed before soldering (Mark mentioned this in discussion) This is why its only available terminated, it needs burning off carefully with controlled heat and is time consuming.
 
The idea that the dialectic alters is a novel concept but there is absolutely no evidence to support it outside of creative hypothesis.
 
Cereal Killer said:
Same goes for skin effect IIRC.
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Skin effect is well understood but not an issue as it does not occur at the low freqs used in hifi.

IMHO burn in does not exist, what does happen is that over a period of time your hearing/brain is adjusting to this new presentation.
 
Yup, none of those links appear to contradict the idea that skin effect is not relevant at audio frequencies.
 
From the previous TQB thread:

CJ14 said:
Wrong the first part of this is not correct there is 3 off 7 strand in each conductor in TGB and the Graphite has 7 off 7 the Silvers are the same cable with Ag solder and plugs.

Skin effect, so you all see this as high frequency and not timing high speed edges, wrong. 1KHz I think most could hear that is 1mS, 100KHz is 10uS so lets see a bass note 80Hz with a rise or attack edge on the the smack down of 10uS how would it sound ???
Now slow it down to an attack edge of 1mS what sort of noise is this ?

Now lets think about harmonics now how does skin effect change this ?

Would you say 100KHz is high frequency ??
Would you say Sonar is high frequency ??
Then why did we take the trouble when designing Sonar for the MOD and using Litz wire to make it more sensitive?

Before anybody makes a rash statements think about edges please.
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Cereal Killer said:
I disagree.

Have look at these links Colin posted on the TQB thread a while back when we were discussing his design/s http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3108936&postcount=326
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He's wrong, physics is physics and saying that skin effect is an issue at audio frequencies is ignoring the laws of physics for nothing more than a marketing agenda. Most of those links cite usage in high power/current environments or RF transmitters, none of these apply to hifi as that is low current & low frequency.

I am an ex Royal Signals radio engineer with 30 years experience and have come across and learnt about skin effect as it is a major factor with SHF radio transmission but of zero consequence below 50 KHZ.

Colin is very clever but at the end of the day is selling a product and bullshit will sometimes seep into the brochures or adverts.
 
So what's your take on this then?

CJ14 said:
Skin effect, so you all see this as high frequency and not timing high speed edges, wrong. 1KHz I think most could hear that is 1mS, 100KHz is 10uS so lets see a bass note 80Hz with a rise or attack edge on the the smack down of 10uS how would it sound ???
Now slow it down to an attack edge of 1mS what sort of noise is this ?

Now lets think about harmonics now how does skin effect change this ?

Would you say 100KHz is high frequency ??
Would you say Sonar is high frequency ??
Then why did we take the trouble when designing Sonar for the MOD and using Litz wire to make it more sensitive?

Before anybody makes a rash statements think about edges please.
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It's not relevant, I'll repeat it again skin effect is not an issue at audio frequencies so the rest of that is waffle.
 
I am sorry but I do disagree, and I design not repair for a living, yes RF and skin effect is relevant, when I designed sonar kit at 40KHz and 100KHz your telling me the extra few Watts I got out was in my mind, mmm I then used NAFF kit. We had better tell The Royal Navy then that the kit I worked on in a design team we could just use 30A Cooker Cable because you say it is not relevant. God the money we could save, and I could have not bothered with a total of nine years at uni, and 40+ yrs of design work experience. What a waster I am.

litz_design_table2.jpg


Do note the 60Hz - 1KHz

Another good read and not crap is here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

Enjoy and read well.
 
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