Van attack at Finsbury park mosque.
- Thread starter Philim
- Start date
Mikeandvan
Banned
Still you don't get it! Yes I defend these f***wits right to express themselves, that's not to say a member of the public won't hit them over the head once for every word they utter! Suppression by the state affects everyone, so that's why it should be avoided. The public however may clash on the streets, so what? If you go around spouting the most vile hatred that we've ever seen, then don't be surprised if people get angry, the thing is, people aren't, but they should.
Still
he said his naim was ralph
Lee T
pfm Member
I think this goes to show how little religion plays a part in British society, Muslim is the second largest religion in the UK with just 4% of the whole population, I think this goes some way to explaining the problem.
Non religious people in the UK have problems with any religion,
recently here on pfm the Jehovah's witness religion came in for the usual battering without an eyelid being blinked, you have to ask, if this had been aimed at the Muslim religion, how the thread would have panned out, I imagine, considering the amount of venom spouted, it would have closed down sharpish but as it was this particular religion it was fine to carry on regardless,
we either respect all religions for what they are & what they represent to the individual & give due care to how we portray them or we ban all religious posts as it seems quite biased as far as I can see. Either we agree any religion is fare game or none is.
I would like someone who battered the religion a few short days ago (there were plenty, including mods) to state how they feel this is ok yet feel it not ok to spout discontent for the Muslim or any other religion.
Why should one set of personal beliefs take preference over another.
I personally have no religious beliefs, I have in my time mocked religious beliefs, including the DUP quite recently, but having time to reflect, it is their right to believe what they wish as is any religion.
The Jehovah posts show how hate can fester & spread quite rapidly in online forums, some say it in jest, some don't, it matters not.
Precisely.
Mikeandvan
Banned
Oh look at Bob, sneering away at my grammar, have you anything to add to this topic or is that it? I suppose people would have guessed I was referring to the latter part of my sentence.
Still
he said his naim was ralph
Reasonable criticism of any religion is OK, but conflating Islam with Daesh et al isn't.
Do you recall the IRA/UDA/ect ever being described as Christian militants?
PaulMB
pfm Member
Very interesting thoughts. Perhaps one factor is the perceived challenge to the indigenous/traditional culture of a country. Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodists, C of E, Jews, even Hindus and Sikhs, do not challenge the established values of UK (or French, Italian, American, etc.) society in the same way that Islam does. You don't get Sikhs saying that one day everything will be run by Sikh law (if there is one?) or ultra-orthodox Jews declaring that one day raising pigs will be forbidden in the UK and buses will not run on Saturday.
Having said that, you do get young thugs in the UK beating up Indians and Pakistanis and Jews and gays because they are Indians and Pakistanis and Jews and gays. But it is limited to young hooligan-type idiots. They need someone to beat up.
maxflinn
pfm Member
Douglas Murray is an apologist and advocate for Neocon-led Western intervention/terrorism in the Middle East and rabid Islamophobe.
You're as likely to be radicalised reading his 'work' as you are reading something written by Abu Hamza.
Of course the BBC has him on every other day, but then that organisation is fast becoming the media wing of Neoconservative terror.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
4.4% are Muslim, but there are many more immigrants than Muslims.
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/
And they are not spread evenly across the country. So there is a perception that British culture (whatever it is) is being eroded. This is most keenly felt by those at the lower levels of the social class ladder who most closely relate to some sort of community spirit.
lost audiophile
pfm Member
Since when has a hate crime become a terror attack? The results are equally appalling but am I the only one who finds this revision of terrorism problematic?
Lee T
pfm Member
It's cop out, you know it.
Still
he said his naim was ralph
It's a tricky one, but presumably when an action is intended to terrorise a community/town/city/country/ect.
Obviously not. Why do you think that?
Lee T
pfm Member
I agree with this but I imagine many who throw hate at any religion are ignorant of the beliefs.
You are correct though, it's a good analogy of why this particular religion comes in for such scrutiny, obviously, terrorists claiming in the name of Allah doesn't help those who practice Islam for the right reasons.
I just feel that until all religions are dealt with equally, the hate will fester, those who enjoy to mock will find the religion of choice to allow them to do this without coming over as a religious hater, all in jest, big laugh, you know the sort, they then turn round & slate anyone who either mocks their own personal belief or anyone who they see fit to call a racist to make them look holier than though, goes on more than you may think, usually the most racist amongst us BTW.
I cannot see any problem in someone showing concerns for any religion, if they feel the Muslim religion could cause problems in their society then say so, it's a free country, just make sure to inform rather than destroy anyone who shows such concerns.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Come on Max, this is a serious discussion. You can't dismiss, without debate, anyone who does not agree 100% with your own opinion as a lackey of neocon, ultra-right, neo-fascists lunatics. (in itself a category defined by yourself).
maxflinn
pfm Member
I know what Douglas Murray is, Paul. I know what damage Neoconservatism has caused.
It is an ideology that has been vastly more destructive than Wahhabism, and IMO no advocate of it should be afforded a platform on the likes of the BBC - as Murray so often is - in order to attempt to poison the minds of the masses.
Oddly enough, now, Neoconservatives and extreme Wahhabists are working hand-in-hand as they try to destroy Syria. The two most dangerous ideologies of the day, working together.
Seanm
pfm Member
A number of assumptions and conflations being made there gassor. Not buying it.
Tim Jones
pfm Member
Are any of these threads a 'serious discussion'? They remind me of Brexit Wife Swap tbh, and are about as interesting. Max's tinfoil-hatted, semi-totalitarian agenda now takes precedence here.