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MDAC First Listen (part 00101110)

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fusion5 said:
How you managed without a decent system for all those years is beyond my comprehension, anyway. :p
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:( Well we didn't really have the space here in CZ before I built the lab and I've been working on the FDAC simulations / PCB design - but now after 4 hard years work we are getting close to listening to prototypes :)
 
JohnW said:
Well, I see the L3 / L3MM/MC versions commanding the highest value on the S/H market and if we manufacture any more units after the initial PFM production batch then these will be sold at the market rate (x6 BOM cost) so your looking at GBP5K for the FDAC L3MM/MC verses GBP4K for the Basic L2.
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I'm considering L3 MM/MC for all my FDACs. Maybe a good idea if I continue on the ESL path (and don't need the slaves anymore :rolleyes: ).
 
JohnW said:
We have the CD drive I/O's on the Digital PCB, but I'm little nervous as to the available space in the FDAC chassis to fit the loader - I'm aware that a lot of people are very keen on an internal CD option so its still "on the drawing board"...
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Hi John
Please find a way of fitting the CD loader into the FDAC chassis as my main reason for going for the FDAC was to replace my 8200CDQ.
Presumably if the loader cannot be fitted inside you could provide a CD transport separately which while ok would not be ideal for me.
 
JohnW said:
We have the CD drive I/O's on the Digital PCB, but I'm little nervous as to the available space in the FDAC chassis to fit the loader - I'm aware that a lot of people are very keen on an internal CD option so its still "on the drawing board"...
Click to expand...

JJJohn, thank you for the warning, We’ve had a lot of very good news recently, so this is a bit of a shock. If I try to unpack the implications of this, It sounds as if the CD version has become more than a bit doubtful, perhaps 50/50 at best, and it was the CD which brought me back on board for the FDAC project. In anticipation of this I have already removed my old Meridian 500 transport from the rig and packed it up ready for eBay; if it were not for my laziness it would have been up for sale last weekend. It now sounds as if that was premature: should I hang on to it for a while yet?
 
Coll, BobL,

As a backup plan if it does prove impossible to fit the loader into the chassis then we would design it into the Detox style case operated by the FDAC (display controls etc) - so just a slim case with slot and eject button - the display / controls would be on the FDAC.

Coll, you could then pop in a 32GB SDcard in the FDAC's rear and transfer your most often listened too CD's into the FDAC directly (The FDAC can insure a bit perfect error free rip) - and save the drives lifetime... with Lossless compression the FDAC can hold 100 or so CD's of your most listened too CD's on a single flash card...

Coll, I'm mindful that the main reason you joined was due to the CD internal loader, so I'll do my very best to squeeze it in... :)
 
Well first listen of the Detox with RTRT "Toy" MDAC and I'm “surprised” at the difference the Decorrelation mode makes! I don’t want to say too much until Jarek has had a chance to listen (blind tests) – its still early days and its all to easy to jump to conclusions in the euphoria of the moment but from just brief listening but atleast for me its very positive :) ….

I say surprised, but I’m not really as I expected this based upon past experience but until now I've never had a simple way to switch between “modes”. In fact my eyes watered when I heard the difference in A/B comparisons for the first time as it was a leap of engineering “faith” to add the mode – but I had my reasons…

Due to the random nature of the Decorrelation circuit once an hour or so the USB drops out with the Decorrelation control set to max – now that I’m aware of the issue I’ll add limiters or filtering to prevent the issue… (he says)… but first I’d like Jarek to listen before I make any changes as I’m very impressed with the current results.

RTRT,
Would you mind if I hold onto your “Toy” MDAC until after the weekend? as it’s the best DAC we have here at the moment and very I’m happy with how the systems sounds with it (well I have to forgive the amplifiers limitations despite almost a weeks work trying to coaxes better sound quality from them – but the parable of trying to make a silk purse form a pigs ear kept going though my mind)...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Detox MDAC 1.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Detox MDAC 2.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Detox MDAC 3.JPG
 
efski said:
Hi JohnW,

As Detox suppose to "clean" usb signal, will standard cheapo usb cable do to connect it to mdac/fdac or decent cable is still required?
Also, to clock-lock will any optical cable do the job?
And last, can Detox be placed on the top of MDac or for some reason it should be not? (im trying to find best place for it on my very space limited hifi shelf :) )

Regards.
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Here's the Detox atop rtrt's MDAC - note the MDAC vent positions (unblocked) and the short USB cable :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Detox MDAC 2.JPG
 
JohnW said:
We have the CD drive I/O's on the Digital PCB, but I'm little nervous as to the available space in the FDAC chassis to fit the loader - I'm aware that a lot of people are very keen on an internal CD option so its still "on the drawing board"...
Click to expand...

Coll said:
Hi John
Please find a way of fitting the CD loader into the FDAC chassis...
Presumably if the loader cannot be fitted inside you could provide a CD transport separately which while ok would not be ideal for me.
Click to expand...

Bob L said:
JJJohn, thank you for the warning, We’ve had a lot of very good news recently, so this is a bit of a shock....It sounds as if the CD version has become more than a bit doubtful, perhaps 50/50 at best...
Click to expand...
Hm, that would be very unpleasant. I also had the plan to clean up my hifi ( minus: Pre-Amp, CD-Trans, MDAC). It was also planed to place the FDAC on the board. So an all integrated solution would be very helpful!
;-)
 
JohnW said:
Erh - to help our Piggybank! :p

Well, I see the L3 / L3MM/MC versions commanding the highest value on the S/H market and if we manufacture any more units after the initial PFM production batch then these will be sold at the market rate (x6 BOM cost) so your looking at GBP5K for the FDAC L3MM/MC verses GBP4K for the Basic L2.

I'll personally test and listen to each PFM unit - while mostly I'll never get to see the "full" production FDAC's - only those that have some odd "technical issue"...

To be honest, for GBP350 extra between L2 & L3MM/MC you get so much more... the L3 will even be able to test itself via internal ADC/DAC loopback - and a crazy idea we have is to be able to "debug" issues with L3 units remotely via the internet - we will build this feature so we can remotely monitor any problems on the production line.

When you look at the cost of a DSD256 (11MHz) and PCM 768 ADC and MC/MM Phono stage GBP350 becomes chicken feed money - although ignoring our Petrol cost its more then we both "personally" live on here in Czech Rep. a month :)

Maybe one day we will encourage you to buy a decent cheap turntable so you can listen to what all the fuss is about "analogue" :) ... if not or our "sample" DSD Vinyl / Master tape rips will encourage you :)
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Just payed for L3 & L3MM/MC option for my second FDAC.

Guess it is a win win situation. Helps your Piggybank and I will not get into the situation where I regret I did not go for the full fat version for both :D
 
JohnW said:
Coll, BobL,

As a backup plan if it does prove impossible to fit the loader into the chassis then we would design it into the Detox style case operated by the FDAC (display controls etc) - so just a slim case with slot and eject button - the display / controls would be on the FDAC.

Coll, you could then pop in a 32GB SDcard in the FDAC's rear and transfer your most often listened too CD's into the FDAC directly (The FDAC can insure a bit perfect error free rip) - and save the drives lifetime... with Lossless compression the FDAC can hold 100 or so CD's of your most listened too CD's on a single flash card...

Coll, I'm mindful that the main reason you joined was due to the CD internal loader, so I'll do my very best to squeeze it in... :)
Click to expand...

John, thank you, that’s very reassuring! Of course the original one-box solution is tidier and I am sure most people would prefer that. For me a supercompact Detox style CD could even turn out to be an advantage, since I could choose which side of the FDAC to have the CD slot. It would also go rather well with my Mini, but I would expect to pay rather more than £50 for it!
I guess my Meridian can be launched into the void; it looks nice but takes up far too much space.
 
John
Playback from an SD card is very appealing; its a shame it's limited to 32 gb. What is the reason for that limit?
 
iansr said:
John
Playback from an SD card is very appealing; its a shame it's limited to 32 gb. What is the reason for that limit?
Click to expand...

If you need more space thatn the 32 GB on the SD card you can always add an external USB disk.

But if you have a big library it is much better to run a dedicated server with LMS or Roon on something more powerful than a BBB.
 
JohnW said:
Yes, we can post the clock performance / PSU etc - for the eye patterns I've been thinking its best to post a video of what we see on the Analogue scope as this is far more telling to the "untrained" eye...
Click to expand...

Will have to pop some popcorn! :)
 
Rune said:
If you need more space thatn the 32 GB on the SD card you can always add an external USB disk.

But if you have a big library it is much better to run a dedicated server with LMS or Roon on something more powerful than a BBB.
Click to expand...

Well I already have a Synology NAS holding my music library. However I'm speculating that the more direct playback from the SD card wil prove to be better than NAS>Aries Mini>Detox>FDAC . . . .
 
efski said:
Is it buy two, sell one double or triple the price option so actually you get your for free? :)
Need to convince my wife to join the project! :)
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I plan on keeping both, but I don't know if I will use booth in one system or in two system at the moment.
I am just trying to cover all bases.
 
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