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MDAC First Listen (part 00100111)

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Since we're on the "all good fun" subject, installed Roon a couple of days ago. Roon (Server) on my MediaPC & Roon (Client) on laptop. Tidal access from Roon impressive.

Scrapping my Auralic Aries/Aurender plans, no need. Impressed and working really good, drawback is cost @ 119 USD/Year. Now waiting for the IOS version.

Reversed BobL's Regen journey i.e. installed the SMPS, same experience.
 
Lars.
There is always the lifetime subscription option if the software is as good as you say it is (@ only 499$)
Roon server: does it rival JRiver for playback quality?
Kind regards,
Peter
 
Rosewind said:
Lars.
There is always the lifetime subscription option if the software is as good as you say it is (@ only 499$)
Roon server: does it rival JRiver for playback quality?
Kind regards,
Peter
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Rosewind,

Decided for the yearly subscription instead of lifetime, 10% off when I signed up (107 USD). Who knows what will show up in a couple of years. Anyways cheaper then investing in an Aries/Aurender.

Been using JRiver since version 15 and still do (v.20), SQ is on par with JRiver, functions below JRiver eg DSP which I've never used. UI much better then JRiver.

Deal breaker for me was Roon's client/server architecture, UI and Tidal integration.
 
LarsS said:
Rosewind,

Decided for the yearly subscription instead of lifetime, 10% off when I signed up (107 USD). Who knows what will show up in a couple of years. Anyways cheaper then investing in an Aries/Aurender.

Been using JRiver since version 15 and still do (v.20), SQ is on par with JRiver, functions below JRiver eg DSP which I've never used. UI much better then JRiver.

Deal breaker for me was Roon's client/server architecture, UI and Tidal integration.
Click to expand...

Roon server added to my list of things to try out. For now I will stay with JRiver as I have very good playback from my Atom-based Music Player (CAPS) with Paul Pang USB out into a modest ODAC and AVM C6M + Amphion Argon 3L speakers. This is where I plan to put the MDAC2/TDAC and VFETs.

I would like to have a listen to a Norma integrated at some point ...

Peter
 
Rune said:
Agree but while we are waiting we have to pass the time with something :cool:

IMHO you are better of spending your money first on speakers and amps. Stuff like the Regen and cables is when you are into diminishing return on investment / placebo territory.

On The Regen site it says: "Regardless of whether you are feeding your USB DAC from a from a stock computer, a fully-optimized music server, or a streamer/renderer (Auralic Aries, Bryston, Moon Audio, SOtM sMS-100, etc.), the REGEN has the potential to carry your music system to a new level."

This Worries me because if this is true the mentioned suppliers and products like the PPA USB card is snake oil. Because they promise exactly the same as the UpTone Regen.
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How can something be a solution unless there is a problem? What is the problem. I seem to remember this being discussed when it came out: apart from the galvanic isolation thing I seem to remember it's something to do with 8kHz packet noise and impedance mismatches (a recurring theme with John Swenson).
But honestly- really? Do you have a problem with 8kHz packet noise or whatever ? Unless you have a clearly identified problem for it to solve then why on earth should anyone expect it to make things sound better?
Of course wanting to buy something hifi ish and inconspicuous for around $175 might be a problem.
 
adamdea said:
How can something be a solution unless there is a problem? What is the problem. I seem to remember this being discussed when it came out: apart from the galvanic isolation thing I seem to remember it's something to do with 8kHz packet noise and impedance mismatches (a recurring theme with John Swenson).
But honestly- really? Do you have a problem with 8kHz packet noise or whatever ? Unless you have a clearly identified problem for it to solve then why on earth should anyone expect it to make things sound better?
Of course wanting to buy something hifi ish and inconspicuous for around $175 might be a problem.
Click to expand...

Perhaps some of us didn't know that we had a problem before we put a Regen in, but once it's in, most people hear a substantial improvement. Maybe it was packet noise reduction, perhaps it was something else, but does it matter, if things are better?
 
Dear Mr John! Wishing you a safe and fun trip to Hong Kong tomorrow. Looking much forward to hearing about your journey experiences at opportune moments :) The LakeWest Fan Club!!!
 
ti33er said:
Dear Mr John! Wishing you a safe and fun trip to Hong Kong tomorrow. Looking much forward to hearing about your journey experiences at opportune moments :) The LakeWest Fan Club!!!
Click to expand...

Yes, consider me part of that club. *shakes pompoms*

Don't forget to buy some MP9 players (they are the best ones, 3x as good as MP3 players) and some very powerful lazer pointers that can pop balloons (and set fire to you hands).

Have fun!

PS. Would love to know about any iterative planning your considering related to the ambitious MDAC too!
 
adamdea said:
How can something be a solution unless there is a problem? What is the problem.
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Adam,

No probs - just deficiences/quests/searches for the ultimate/best/good enough sound supporting our audio/music hobby.

There's much to improve in the digital audio/music realm, be it cables, formats (PCM/DSD), DAC's (R2R/DeltaSigma), ADC's, Power, USB thingies aso ... I'd suggest to keep an open mind.
 
FWIW, my reference standard thus far has been a Bel Canto cdp, used as a transport and fed to the MDAC alongside the USB input. I can play a CD and the corresponding FLAC file simultaneously and switch between the two from my listening position using the remote. Before the Regen arrived I had to agree with Steven Toy that the Flac files were more convenient but inferior to CDs in terms of absolute quality. Now, I struggle to tell the difference.

That's good enough for me. (And the HD broadcast of tonight's prom sounded superb! :))


My equipment; my room; my ears. YMMV. No threat to anyone else's worldview express or implied.
 
ti33er said:
Dear Mr John! Wishing you a safe and fun trip to Hong Kong tomorrow. Looking much forward to hearing about your journey experiences at opportune moments :) The LakeWest Fan Club!!!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your thoughts, I'm flying out on the 28th, arriving in HK on the 29th :)

Will post updates here :)
 
Oops lol was sure you had said 25th!! Well get some rest in, the JetLag will be atrocious I'm sure ;-) Best regards
 
Paul,

I was thinking of arranging the trip sometime from 25th onwards :) so I'm sure I would have mentioned the 25th :)

Today I've been cloths shipping for the first time in say 5 years as they say first impressions last - it would not have looked good! lets just say I'm not one to take care of myself.

I'm still trying to complete the final test pn the Analogue PCB, last night I blewup an ESS DAC IC... Not sure what happened maybe by tonight I'll have it completed, its cutting it close to my trip.

Atleast while I'm in HK I'll have time to reflect upon all my findings so I can determine the final configuration of the production PCB's.

I tried the MOSFETS in place of the transistors in the analogue input stage, the Dynamic range was reduced to 125dB Awtd (from 133dB) but still very good.

As the MOSFETS and Transistors are pin compatible I'm thinking of offering two versions of the MDAC2. MDAC2 HDR (High Dynamic Range) or MDAC2 XSQ (eXtended Sound Quality). The MDAC2 XSQ should sound closer to the TDAC.

I'm just thinking out aloud at the moment, much will be decided during the listening tests.
 
JohnW said:
I'm just thinking out aloud at the moment, much will be decided during the listening tests.
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Hi John, I'd been wondering all along, though due to time constraints currently this will not be relevant for myself: Would you care to have some of us around for listening sessions during the voicing of MD2? Might be fun, might be distraction for you...

Cheers,
Achim
 
JohnW said:
,



As the MOSFETS and Transistors are pin compatible I'm thinking of offering two versions of the MDAC2. MDAC2 HDR (High Dynamic Range) or MDAC2 XSQ (eXtended Sound Quality). The MDAC2 XSQ should sound closer to the TDAC.

.
Click to expand...

Great idea John.I really like the sound of XSQ.I can imagine and ,in my mind , almost hear the glorious soundstage of the completed MDAC2.That's my cup of tea.
Best of luck on your trip.
 
BrianPK said:
Almost hear the glorious soundstage of the completed MDAC2.That's my cup of tea.
Click to expand...

Based upon previous experience of using MOSFETs in input stages, your reading my mind as that's exactly what I expect from the XSQ Mosfet input stage :) Oh and delicately smooth sound you can reach out and touch :)
 
Really chuffed this evening as I've now tested the analogue PCB complete with on board ESS DAC IC (rather then then being driven by the UPD's analogue Signal generator or via a ESS DAC mounted on Jarip salvaged MDAC)

As I don't have a digital PCB, you can see in the picture below the green MDAC2 Analogue PCB ESS DAC is being driven via signals from Jarips salvaged MDAC :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/IMG_7456.JPG

I gained an extra 1dB dynamic range, so the XSQ MOSFET version of MDAC2 PCB's Awtd dynamic range balanced is 126.5dB (There is a good chance the MDAC2 HDR version will now be around 134dB dynamic range).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u...7.19Vrms BAL 126.5dB Awtd 123.5dB Non Wtd.jpg

You can see above that the MOSFET the noise floor is elevated (not flat) at LF, but is still nice and distortion free.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/MDAC2 MOSFET ESS 0dB Bal THD 0.00045% 5Vrms REF.jpg

MDAC2 XSQ THD at 0dB Balanced is 0.000045% so still ultra linear :)

I'm very VERY impressed with the analogue PCB, I still need to devise a method to solve the Balanced feedback lines (you can see the temporary solution of the Red coax cable on the PCB) - I'm leaning towards a 6 layer PCB which will also improve performance in other areas...

I have a very good feeling about the MOSFET XSQ version - the use of transistors in the analogue front end just did not feel right, I'm now REALLY excited to listen to the MDAC2 once the digital PCB has been completed.
 
JohnW said:
I have a very good feeling about the MOSFET XSQ version - the use of transistors in the analogue front end just did not feel right, I'm now REALLY excited to listen to the MDAC2 once the digital PCB has been completed.
Click to expand...

Sounds very exciting John! MDAC2 just keeps getting better. It's going to be well and truly worth the wait.

Cheers,
Bruce
 
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