MDAC First Listen (part 00100111)

[JohnW]

I'd willingly settle for SQ over dynamics any day of the week if it had to come down to that.

Its Dynamic range / SNR (measurement) rather them "dynamics" WRT sound quality.

The MDAC2's dynamic range using transistors in the analogue stage is 133dB which is probably the highest available - I'm not sure how much using MOSFETs instead would reduce this to....

 

[Richard Kimber]

Its Dynamic range / SNR (measurement) rather them "dynamics" WRT sound quality.

The MDAC2's dynamic range using transistors in the analogue stage is 133dB which is probably the highest available - I'm not sure how much using MOSFETs instead would reduce this to....

I can see the attraction of having the best SNR in the business, but still I'd go for quality.

- Richard.

 

[LarsS]

JohnW,

A quick question: the Uptone Regen arrived today and appeared to be working brilliantly: after five minutes of an iPlayer re-broadcast it all ended in a very loud crash of static/white noise & I leapt for the OFF switch. No apparent damage to anything, thankfully. The Regen was plugged into the USB2 laptop o/p. Would this have somehow overloaded the MDAC, which I believe is a USB-only device? For obvious reasons, I'm reluctant to risk speakers/amp/MDAC again without understanding what happened. Many thanks.

Connected mine directly into my MDAC using the supplied hard A B contact, no probs and a well engineered product.

 

[BrianPK]

Its Dynamic range / SNR (measurement) rather them "dynamics" WRT sound quality.

The MDAC2's dynamic range using transistors in the analogue stage is 133dB which is probably the highest available - I'm not sure how much using MOSFETs instead would reduce this to....

John,I meant I would much prefer SQ to dynamic range ...sorry.

 

[davidjt]

David,

No idea, my understanding is that the uptone Regen is just a high quality USB HUB

Thanks for that , John. Puzzling, but it seems to be working fine now. And a definite upgrade to SQ, so probably worth trying a linear psu in due course.

Also on the plus side, USPS was probably no slower than UPS or Fedx and slipped through under the radar.

 

[timola]

Hello everyone,

I'm intrigued by this Uptone Regen gadget.....can we get a consensus on this? Everyone here seems to be saying it upgrades the SQ of their DAC, I wonder how many MDAC users have one and whether anybody disagrees...With a small sample size of opinions I'm always wary of the 'snake oil' effect and agree with JohnW that some instrumental measurements should be made by an independent lab....and whatever is in this UpTone Regen maybe we can get something similar incorporated into the MDAC2 for the full-width chassis, if there is a benefit to be had....Maybe someone could lend JohnW one of these to test?

On a separate note, the new trendier manufacturers like Devialet are going for one box solutions....which I agree are a neater solution for the home, but which may make future upgrades a tad more difficult....but it may be something to consider say for the VFET crew where an MDAC2+PSU maybe put into one of the monoblocks chassis....for aesthetic and neatness value only. I'm being a little hippo-critical here as I have an active system with 6 monoblocks, a crossover an MDAC with Linear PSU and tons of spaghetti-like cables....still, I would love a one/two box solution in the future.

 

[davidjt]

Those of us who have one may have jumped the gun to some extent: MDAC2 will have proper USB isolation, so the effect of the Regen should be that much less noticeable.

It may be splitting hairs, but I see it not as a 'DAC improver' but a 'source filter'. I am constantly trying to make a laptop based system (FLACs on JRiver, internet radio & YouTube) sound as sweet and natural as my FM Tuner/amp/speakers upstairs. With the arrival of the Regen, I'm a couple of steps closer: the 'digital edge' (jitter) I'm chipping away at is very nearly gone, and I believe MDAC2 + linear psu, will finish the job.

So imo: it's not snake oil, the problem the Regen seeks to address does actually exist; JohnW is already tackling the same issue, but from a different angle; I decided the Regen was cheap enough to be worth a try, on the basis that however good the DAC, the cleaner the signal fed to it the better.

(Happy to let John examine it, but guessing that's likely to be some time in 2016......)

 

[brab]

somewhat related to the present discussion of USB SQ, I'd like to report how good the SQ I'm getting is using the HDMI output of my Blackberry Playbook into the mdac optical input via a Kanex pro HDMI audio extractor. The SQ is at least as good as what I get from my CD transport into the mdac, which in turn I liked considerably better than USB into the mdac. All comparisons using identical files. Given the convoluted HDMI path I'm using, go figure.

 

[toozeup]

I'm using a Solid Run Hummingboard running Volumio as source since it features Coaxial SPDIF. Previously I used a Sony Vaio Laptop running foobar with USB output. I have to admit the the Coaxial SPDIF is superior (in addition to allowing me to play 24-bit 192hz audio.)

The USB output from my desktop PC was better than any Laptop I tried. I always thought this strange since the battery power should be cleaner than any mains supply.

 

[davidjt]

That sounds like a better solution than trying to overcome the inherent shortcomings of USB.

With my entire music collection on the laptop, I've resorted to beating it into submission. Very nearly there, but it's not ideal.

 

[Discovery]

Ironically, having made the first mention of the Regen device, I find no difference. I have the latest amber version.

I've tried a dedicated audio PC running Windows Server 2012 (stripped down to bare essentials by AudioPhile Optimiser) running Foobar2000, and also on a Raspberry Pi2 (powered by a LPSU) running RuneAudio. Each has FLAC files.

The Pi has HifiBerry's Digi+ extension so I can swap between optical and USB mid-track but both are - to my ears - identical.

I did notice that John mentioned that grounding factors may be improved by the Regen - all my audio power goes through a dedicated power conditioning box (Audio Power Industries Power Wedge Ultra) first so I hope my power is clean.

If anyone wants to make me an offer for an immaculate already-in-the-UK amber Regen...

 

[Rune]

Ironically, having made the first mention of the Regen device, I find no difference. I have the latest amber version.

I've tried a dedicated audio PC running Windows Server 2012 (stripped down to bare essentials by AudioPhile Optimiser) running Foobar2000, and also on a Raspberry Pi2 (powered by a LPSU) running RuneAudio. Each has FLAC files.

The Pi has HifiBerry's Digi+ extension so I can swap between optical and USB mid-track but both are - to my ears - identical.

I did notice that John mentioned that grounding factors may be improved by the Regen - all my audio power goes through a dedicated power conditioning box (Audio Power Industries Power Wedge Ultra) first so I hope my power is clean.

If anyone wants to make me an offer for an immaculate already-in-the-UK amber Regen...

Bad timing I ordered one an hour ago out of curiosity and to get a fix.
I have not bought any thing since the same time last year. Then it was a Hugo which was just to be used temporarily in my main system.
With USB hubs cables etc. there is always the risk of that most of the improvement is placebo. So I hope that I will get big improvement placebo or not

 

[timola]

Ironically, having made the first mention of the Regen device, I find no difference. I have the latest amber version.

I've tried a dedicated audio PC running Windows Server 2012 (stripped down to bare essentials by AudioPhile Optimiser) running Foobar2000, and also on a Raspberry Pi2 (powered by a LPSU) running RuneAudio. Each has FLAC files.

The Pi has HifiBerry's Digi+ extension so I can swap between optical and USB mid-track but both are - to my ears - identical.

I did notice that John mentioned that grounding factors may be improved by the Regen - all my audio power goes through a dedicated power conditioning box (Audio Power Industries Power Wedge Ultra) first so I hope my power is clean.

If anyone wants to make me an offer for an immaculate already-in-the-UK amber Regen...

Those of us who have one may have jumped the gun to some extent: MDAC2 will have proper USB isolation, so the effect of the Regen should be that much less noticeable.

It may be splitting hairs, but I see it not as a 'DAC improver' but a 'source filter'. I am constantly trying to make a laptop based system (FLACs on JRiver, internet radio & YouTube) sound as sweet and natural as my FM Tuner/amp/speakers upstairs. With the arrival of the Regen, I'm a couple of steps closer: the 'digital edge' (jitter) I'm chipping away at is very nearly gone, and I believe MDAC2 + linear psu, will finish the job.

So imo: it's not snake oil, the problem the Regen seeks to address does actually exist; JohnW is already tackling the same issue, but from a different angle; I decided the Regen was cheap enough to be worth a try, on the basis that however good the DAC, the cleaner the signal fed to it the better.

(Happy to let John examine it, but guessing that's likely to be some time in 2016......)

Discovery and davidjt, your posts on this are refreshing, we really do have people in this discussion with excellent critical thinking skills and people who are unafraid of the truth as they hear it in their systems. Someone also made the point about laptops on battery power and how this should add very little power noise to signals. Its seems to me that if you have a well set-up system with decent quality components there is little benefit in a Regen gizmo, but if you're using poorly matched or complicated lower quality setups you may benefit from a Regen. I have seen a photograph of a Regen in a very HiFi system but I was wary of the accompanying article which seemed biased. I believe there is a limit to the SQ that can be obtained from a given music file by a DAC and I've heard several different DACs at different price points achieve very similar results on that given file (or set of files 16bit to 24bit etc. etc.) and after a certain level its better to spend money on improving the other components. I believe the MDAC2 will take us easily to that level and hence can't wait to get my hands on an MDAC2.

 

[EIffel]

Possibly related to the above, I'm amazed by the range of impacts switched power adapters can have based on my recent experience with a PC and an HD-Plex PSU.

I've tried a couple of models of Dell power blocks and could not get rid of some annoying noise when using the soundcard of this PC to feed any audio system. A ground loop suppressor was absolutely needed.

The latest Dell version of this power block (similar wattage etc.) made the ground loop suppressor redundant and resulted in a much improved sound.

I presume similar issues may exist with other devices (streamers, laptops, DACs, even USB hubs)

 

[Rune]

Discovery and davidjt, your posts on this are refreshing, we really do have people in this discussion with excellent critical thinking skills and people who are unafraid of the truth as they hear it in their systems. Someone also made the point about laptops on battery power and how this should add very little power noise to signals. Its seems to me that if you have a well set-up system with decent quality components there is little benefit in a Regen gizmo, but if you're using poorly matched or complicated lower quality setups you may benefit from a Regen. I have seen a photograph of a Regen in a very HiFi system but I was wary of the accompanying article which seemed biased. I believe there is a limit to the SQ that can be obtained from a given music file by a DAC and I've heard several different DACs at different price points achieve very similar results on that given file (or set of files 16bit to 24bit etc. etc.) and after a certain level its better to spend money on improving the other components. I believe the MDAC2 will take us easily to that level and hence can't wait to get my hands on an MDAC2.

Agree but while we are waiting we have to pass the time with something

IMHO you are better of spending your money first on speakers and amps. Stuff like the Regen and cables is when you are into diminishing return on investment / placebo territory.

On The Regen site it says: "Regardless of whether you are feeding your USB DAC from a from a stock computer, a fully-optimized music server, or a streamer/renderer (Auralic Aries, Bryston, Moon Audio, SOtM sMS-100, etc.), the REGEN has the potential to carry your music system to a new level."

This Worries me because if this is true the mentioned suppliers and products like the PPA USB card is snake oil. Because they promise exactly the same as the UpTone Regen.

 

[davidjt]

I can't wait to get my hands on an MDAC2.

Me too!

(By then I'll have Windows 10 + the full Fidelizer program. And may still be wondering whether Windows Server 2012R2 + Audiophile Optimizer are worth the money? )

 

[Yivez]

Thank you and forgive my impatience, but I'm so looking forward to use the MDAC2 with slaves as digital xo for my active speakers

Hope you can help?

I have an L2 on order but I am wondering about getting a slave. I have main speakers and passive subs. Currently I am doing achieving the crossover through a Marchard xm44.

How would you configure this with 2 x MDAC's and do both have MDAC2's?

Apologies if this has been discussed just interested in understanding and figuring out if its worth changing my setup

Many thanks

 

[LarsS]

Agree but while we are waiting we have to pass the time with something

Totally agree with you Rune, it's all for the fun of the audio and music hobby.

/Lars

 

[Bob L]

Ironically, having made the first mention of the Regen device, I find no difference. I have the latest amber version.

I've tried a dedicated audio PC running Windows Server 2012 (stripped down to bare essentials by AudioPhile Optimiser) running Foobar2000, and also on a Raspberry Pi2 (powered by a LPSU) running RuneAudio. Each has FLAC files.

The Pi has HifiBerry's Digi+ extension so I can swap between optical and USB mid-track but both are - to my ears - identical.

I did notice that John mentioned that grounding factors may be improved by the Regen - all my audio power goes through a dedicated power conditioning box (Audio Power Industries Power Wedge Ultra) first so I hope my power is clean.

If anyone wants to make me an offer for an immaculate already-in-the-UK amber Regen...

Before you sell it, have you tried changing to a linear supply? My experience was not so different from yours when using the supplied SMPS, though I could convince myself that I heard a small improvement. However, replacing the SMPS with the cheap Teradak 9v supply makes a major change for the better, and running from my Paul Hynes SR5-12 roughly doubles this improvement. I am certainly not selling mine!

 

[davidjt]

I'll try a linear psu today, and have the parts to build a compact low current one if the 20A one improves things. As Rune says, it's all good fun.

It seems to me that there are (at least) three distinct ways of addressing the USB jitter problem: software - Windows Server 2012R2 + AO; external hardware - Regen etc.; internal hardware - as in proper USB isolation of the DAC.
The fact that Discovery finds no benefit from the Regen leaves me very impressed with the software approach - there's clearly little or nothing left for it to clean up.

Listening through 'phones last night (apologies for the cliche') I was hearing detail on a familiar album that I hadn't been aware of before. So in my current system it definitely works.

Finally, for those of us condemned to using Microsoft products, Windows 10 is almost with us, and is supposedly far more music-friendly than 7 or 8: so maybe the smart thing to do is wait for MDAC2 and try Windows 10 before splashing out on 'fixes'. I guess I'm just too impatient to take my own advice.