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Microphony II

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FWIW I can feel vibration in the top of my Rega Apollo R that is currently playing Seventeen Seconds by The Cure through a pair of 15" Tannoys at about 80db av, one of which is about two feet from it. I guess I'd expect to with such a big and full-range driver so close. It doesn't seem to bother it in the slightest.

PS Loud enough that the f***ing postman has just carded me rather than ringing the wireless doorbell that I'd taken into the room.

This is what I expect, just as much probably more vibration getting into the equipment by the acoustic pressure acting upon its surfaces, rather than from the stand.
 
FWIW I can feel vibration in the top of my Rega Apollo R that is currently playing Seventeen Seconds by The Cure through a pair of 15" Tannoys at about 80db av, one of which is about two feet from it. I guess I'd expect to with such a big and full-range driver so close. It doesn't seem to bother it in the slightest.

My Appllo R is equally unbothered. However, despite only being used as a transport the sound changes if I remove the PEEK feet underneath it. If I use it as a CD player without the MDAC the change is more significant.

I prefer not to use terms like 'bothered, 'worried,' or 'concerned.' Neither the player or its user are performing suboptimally as a result of vibration. There is a sonic change though resulting from changing what the player is sitting on.

Purite will say "poor design" of course.
 
My Appllo R is equally unbothered. However, despite only being used as a transport the sound changes if I remove the PEEK feet underneath it. If I use it as a CD player without the MDAC the change is more significant.

I prefer not to use terms like 'bothered, 'worried,' or 'concerned.' Neither the player or its user are performing suboptimally as a result of vibration. There is a sonic change though resulting from changing what the player is sitting on.

Purite will say "poor design" of course.

So why cant Tony hear a change?
 
There might be a difference ,is you CD player really poorly designed?
Keith.

Keith,

Can't you see this is a circular argument?

You assume that there can't be differences.

Instead of trying to find out why Steven hears differences you automatically conclude that these are just heard because the CDP is poorly designed. Therefore no need to investigate further.

Unless you are able to show how this CDP is flawed, otherwise than guessing it must be poorly designed because it shows sonic changes with different stands (a textbook circular argument) , you can't conclude anything really.
 
My Appllo R is equally unbothered. However, despite only being used as a transport the sound changes if I remove the PEEK feet underneath it. If I use it as a CD player without the MDAC the change is more significant.

I prefer not to use terms like 'bothered, 'worried,' or 'concerned.' Neither the player or its user are performing suboptimally as a result of vibration. There is a sonic change though resulting from changing what the player is sitting on.

Purite will say "poor design" of course.

Does the designer of your dac have an opinion as to why the sound changes depending on the support?
Keith.
 
So why cant Tony hear a change?

In fairness I've not tried with my Rega as I'm beyond the point of being interested. In the past I have heard (or at least been convinced I heard) many of the things Steven is on about. Where we differ is I tend not to hear them as improvements after I've lived with them a bit - this school of tweaking tends to result in a system I just don't enjoy listening to long-term. I'm pretty convinced Steven, Paul Mc etc are hearing what they say they are hearing though, as if not I'm just as suggestable (except I don't like it)!
 
The measurements I'm taking with my VibSensor app jibe with this chart.
Basement floor X=.0081; Y=.0086; Z=.0089


hwdXNS.jpg

It's measurements taken in various environments and it kind of agrees with the app I'm using. I'm trying to see how your measurements equate.

can you send a link?

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/noise/vibrationguide0643.pdf
 
Does the designer of your dac have an opinion as to why the sound changes depending on the support?
Keith.

Ask JohnW about MDAC lid on or off.

Having spoken to John about such things I get the impression that he knows a hell of a lot. He also seems to accept that some things just happen and are devoid of any conclusive explanation as to why or how.

You can know everything, unlike him, and yet know less than he does.
 
I believe he also prefers the sound of the silver units?
Keith.

I think getting out-of-context digs in against your competitors puts people off buying from you; it's a commercial own goal.

One of the reasons why John decided to develop MDAC was inconsistency of manufacture of MDACs with some batches sounding better (or worse) than others. This was a manufacturing not a design issue and it occurred (AFAIK) after he and Audiolab parted company.

Silver and black units were from different manufacturing batches. The colour of the casework was incidental.

I suspect you are aware of this but could not resist an opportunity to pour scorn on your competitors.

People buy from people....
 
So why cant Tony hear a change?

Did he say that he couldn't?

TonyL said:
In fairness I've not tried with my Rega as I'm beyond the point of being interested. In the past I have heard (or at least been convinced I heard) many of the things Steven is on about. Where we differ is I tend not to hear them as improvements after I've lived with them a bit - this school of tweaking tends to result in a system I just don't enjoy listening to long-term. I'm pretty convinced Steven, Paul Mc etc are hearing what they say they are hearing though, as if not I'm just as suggestable (except I don't like it)!

Confirmation bias is clearly at work on your part. If you can't read what you don't want to read, what chance have you got of hearing what you don't want to hear?

  
 

Thanks John.

These are exactly what I thought, guidelines for maximum vibration based on human exposure. They are not measurements of actual levels in those environments.


Section 2 provides preferred and maximum
values for continuous, impulsive and intermittent
vibration. Intermittent vibration is assessed using
the vibration dose concept which relates vibration
magnitude to exposure time. Relevant multiplying
factors are used to derive acceptable magnitudes
of vibration on the basis of the receiver type and
the nature of the vibration.
The criteria are non-mandatory: they are goals
that should be sought to be achieved through
the application of all feasible and reasonable
mitigation measures.
 
Did he say that he couldn't?

It was certainly initially implied but clarified in the subsequent post.

So its Not anything he is bothered about, so its obviously insignificant. In fact he seems to think these these are not improvements, but actually detrimental.

That might concur with accidentally inducing more vibration into your kit by the use of inappropriate and ineffective vibration isolation techniques.
 
It was implied but clarified in the subsequent post.

So its Not anything he is bothered about, so its obviously insignificant. In fact he seems to think these these are not improvements, but actually detrimental.

That might concur with accidentally inducing more vibration into your kit by the use of inappropriate and ineffective vibration isolation techniques.

I think Tony just has a healthy perspective on these things. He likes what he likes and yet shares the experience.

I used the word 'change' for a reason. You are now clutching at straws; the black and white thinking is unmistakable.
 
I think getting out-of-context digs in against your competitors puts people off buying from you; it's a commercial own goal.

One of the reasons why John decided to develop MDAC was inconsistency of manufacture of MDACs with some batches sounding better (or worse) than others. This was a manufacturing not a design issue and it occurred (AFAIK) after he and Audiolab parted company.

Silver and black units were from different manufacturing batches. The colour of the casework was incidental.

I suspect you are aware of this but could not resist an opportunity to pour scorn on your competitors.

People buy from people....
So what sort of surface does John recommend, or does he leave it very much up to the individual listener, but case removed ( black or silver) sounds better?
Keith.
 
So what sort of surface does John recommend, or does he leave it very much up to the individual listener, but case removed ( black or silver) sounds better?
Keith.

I believe so. I haven't tried it with the case removed myself.

This did prompt a rethink on the casework design, iirc.
 
This issue of the dac sounding different according to surface, is that something the designer is attempting to address or will he provide an 'approved' list of supports?
Keith.
 
I think Tony just has a healthy perspective on these things. He likes what he likes and yet shares the experience.

I used the word 'change' for a reason. You are now clutching at straws; the black and white thinking is unmistakable.

Clutching at straws???? In what respect to what? Your methods for isolating vibration simply dont work, they are based on foo not science.

Its up to you to come up with alternative explanation.

Also, I have an open mind thank you, problem is your explanations just dont make sense.I think the black and white thinking is yours - "i hear it therefore it is". the utter denial of possible psychological effects is very telling.

BTW I have already drummed up some interest in the blind testing, so I will progress that over the coming weeks.

We will see what results we get


I am so glad I cant hear these tiny alleged effects, it must drive you to distraction! :)
 
Thanks John.

These are exactly what I thought, guidelines for maximum vibration based on human exposure. They are not measurements of actual levels in those environments.

I imagine they would have been actual measured numbers unless they're just pulling measurements out of thin air. I'm not quite sure what your point is.

I would just like to see how your measurements equate to the ranges supplied in the charts. The numbers from my VibSensor app equate and make sense to me when comparing them to the chart.
 
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