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Young Muslims going to fight in Syria

Robert

Robert

Tapehead
Government concern being expressed today about young Muslims gong out to Syria and supporting the Free Syrian Army. This is a bad thing we are told and mothers are being asked to report their kids to the police if they suspect such intentions.

A fews months ago you might recall the UK government trying to win a parliamentary vote supporting possible military action by UK forces and allies, in support of the FSA.

Anyone like to have a bash as explaining this strange contradiction?
Ok to go and fight in Syria provided you don the appropriate uniform?
 
As a general rule , I consider it to be appropriate for a democratic state to discourage its citizens against fighting in foreign conflicts outside of the organisation , protection and legitimacy of the state army . The governments position is not incongruous .
 
Hi, have the government said how many young guys are involved, or a rough estimate.
Now then if some of these so called fighters get badly injured who picks up the repair bill.
Oh I know the UK tax payer.
 
As a general rule , Snip. The governments position is not incongruous .

when when it was ok or now it isnt

these kids are sandbags for wahabist fascism

like the tosser who blew himself - 'er i dont speak arabic brian'

yeah but its fer freedom from shia'ism

oh right must be for de umma then

form an orderly queue and when i blow the whistle i want you to go over the top for blighty and er oil

i doubt the government gives or gave ashit _ they were sending people to get tortured there and flying em back once they were finished to the usa to waterboard them some more

imo
once the bogativeness of the syrian spontaneous democratic western sponsored uprising of sunnis against shias was sussed publically it became untenable to let civvies go there and pretend they were wadicalised -

but heck we are chums with Saud - its all so gay and so much oil. so lets talk about mums

ffs
 
Muslim women are well known for their high standing in Muslim society so I'm sure they will make a big impact on their sons.
 
Gerald said:
As a general rule , I consider it to be appropriate for a democratic state to discourage its citizens against fighting in foreign conflicts outside of the organisation , protection and legitimacy of the state army . The governments position is not incongruous .
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Maybe but it is generally bad law to extend the reach of a country's jurisdiction beyond its own shores and we rightly berate the Americans for doing it. I'm not sure that what goes on in Syria (or elsewhere) is much of our business. And I'm equally sure that Assad's people are quite capable of dealing with any law breakers they find.

I am also bothered that such a law, had it been in effect in the 30s, would have rendered the likes of George Orwell criminal for going off to fight in the Spanish Civil War. And before anyone says that that was an obviously just cause, I'm not sure that there was much fragrant or very democratic about many of the Republican factions in that war either.

P
 
psi310398 said:
Maybe but it is generally bad law to extend the reach of a country's jurisdiction beyond its own shores and we rightly berate the Americans for doing it. I'm not sure that what goes on in Syria (or elsewhere) is much of our business. And I'm equally sure that Assad's people are quite capable of dealing with any law breakers they find.

I am also bothered that such a law, had it been in effect in the 30s, would have rendered the likes of George Orwell criminal for going off to fight in the Spanish Civil War. And before anyone says that that was an obviously just cause, I'm not sure that there was much fragrant or very democratic about many of the Republican factions in that war either.

P
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Precisely zero difference between the Republican volunteers & the muslim jihadists.

If it's illegal for one group, it's illegal for the other.

Chris
 
psi310398 said:
Maybe but it is generally bad law to extend the reach of a country's jurisdiction beyond its own shores and we rightly berate the Americans for doing it. I'm not sure that what goes on in Syria (or elsewhere) is much of our business. And I'm equally sure that Assad's people are quite capable of dealing with any law breakers they find.

I am also bothered that such a law, had it been in effect in the 30s, would have rendered the likes of George Orwell criminal for going off to fight in the Spanish Civil War. And before anyone says that that was an obviously just cause, I'm not sure that there was much fragrant or very democratic about many of the Republican factions in that war either.

P
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Is this not a case of the authorities questioning people within the UK or on their return to the UK to determine what they intend to do or what they have done and depending upon their answers taking action or not?

Not quite the same as forced rendition or extra judicial action but am always open to information from those in the know.
 
In a way it reminds me a debate that took place in Israel. The authorities warned the Israelis to avoid visiting Sinai because of terrorists' threats to injure Israelis. The warning was based on intelligence.
Many citizens ignored this warning and the debate was exactly on the question - if something happens to them - who takes the responsibility. The answer is - the state. This means that foolishness of few by their own choice will fall on the state (=all citizens).

I thing that this is a selfish act and a state has the right to try to avoid it.

Arye
 
auric said:
Is this not a case of the authorities questioning people within the UK or on their return to the UK to determine what they intend to do or what they have done and depending upon their answers taking action or not?
Not quite the same as forced rendition or extra judicial action but am always open to information from those in the know.
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If people could be trusted not to lie, but sadly they do. Maybe lie detector test?
 
Robert said:
Government concern being expressed today about young Muslims gong out to Syria and supporting the Free Syrian Army. This is a bad thing we are told and mothers are being asked to report their kids to the police if they suspect such intentions.

A fews months ago you might recall the UK government trying to win a parliamentary vote supporting possible military action by UK forces and allies, in support of the FSA.

Anyone like to have a bash as explaining this strange contradiction?
Ok to go and fight in Syria provided you don the appropriate uniform?
Click to expand...

No strange contradiction. In one scenario, you are a paid member of HM's Army, covered by military law, with limits on what you can and can't do, and a clear chain of command. In the other, you are a civilian putting yourself in harm's way. That applies whatever your religion and wherever the conflict is.
 
daveofbradford said:
If people could be trusted not to lie, but sadly they do. Maybe lie detector test?
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Had not realised that lie detectors worked or that the results were permissible in a court of law. A fall-back might be a biometric passport or whatever they are called coupled with access to shed loads of immigration data, travel histories, data held on the traveller’s electronic kit all under the gaze of immigration staff when needed.
 
i suggested the gov will just be shuffling deckchairs in this piece of theatre.. in a short while i expect it will flik to saying Syria is exporting tearowrists

in which case lots of people willing to make a "futile gesture at this time"will come in very handy..

its how the fbi run the scam in the colonies
 
auric said:
Is this not a case of the authorities questioning people within the UK or on their return to the UK to determine what they intend to do or what they have done and depending upon their answers taking action or not?

Not quite the same as forced rendition or extra judicial action but am always open to information from those in the know.
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Actually, several people have been arrested and tried for attending terrorist training...which seems hard/impossible to distinguish from militia training.
 
To answer Robert's opening question:The security services consider Syria to be the highest threat to UK security because AQ operate freely there. Muslims have many reasons for wanting to go: to fight, to train, to support other Muslims and for humanitarian reasons. The threat is that they are radicalised, or further radicalised, and receive training or guidance in attack planning to be delivered in the UK. Travel to Syria is far easier than it was to Afghanistan and Pakistan (where training might have been given in recent years) plus there are the other reasons to travel, all making it far more attractive to some people.
 
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line


The few media outlets that are willing to pick up the Syria story even now are gingerly treating it as something new, jumping in based on their own editorial biases, sometimes emphasizing the CIA and MI6 role in cooperating with the Turks to undermine Bashar al-Assad. But Hersh’s tale is only surprising if one had not been reading between the lines over the past three years, where the clandestine role of the British and American governments was evident and frequently reported on over the internet and, most particularly, in the local media in the Middle East. Far from being either rogue or deliberately deceptive, operations by the U.S. and UK intelligence services, the so-called “ratlines” feeding weapons into Syria, were fully vetted and approved by both the White House and Number 10 Downing Street. The more recent exposure of the Benghazi CIA base’s possible involvement in obtaining Libyan arms as part of the process of equipping the Syrian insurgents almost blew the lid off of the arrangement but somehow the media attention was diverted by a partisan attack on the Obama Administration over who said what and when to explain the security breakdown and the real story sank out of sight.
 
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