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When is "Classic" audio gear not "Classic"?

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Fudgemaster

pfm Member
To avoid a thread hijack, I'm starting this one. I've had some bits of hifi equipment for a few years, the oldest being my Planar 3/R200/Dynavector 10x4, all early 1980s. The drive belt is now a white one, and I've changed the bearing ball for a ceramic ball. Otherwise, the deck is as I bought it.
Now, following a comment in another thread, I'm wondering if changing the motor will detract from it's "originality" enough to deter future buyers, or not? I appreciate that mechanicals wear out over the years, but my deck hasn't had a huge amount of use, so there's probably quite a bit of life left in the motor and arm bearings. I could send the arm to be serviced, to check the state of it. But a Rega motor replacement is worth doing, for the improvement it gives.
Obviously the cartridge will deteriorate, may be too far gone already, but it's a bit too expensive to service it, for me, anyway. I'm beginning to wish I'd still got the spare headshell - talk about short-sighted.
So, the question is, is it ok to improve your "classic", so that it sounds better to you, or leave it alone while it's still working well?
 
If it was a collectors item worth 1000s or even 10,0000s I'd be concerned. No offense but for a Planar 3 I'd do whatever gets it sounding the best it can for you and not worry about future buyers.
 
Generally i like to keep things as they were designed, intended and originally sold. If i want something 'better' i'd buy a different product. For me, 'Classic' is exactly that..... I'd not modify my Nait2, Kans,Leica M6, Hasselblad etc.... but that's me.
 
Fudgemaster said:
So, the question is, is it ok to improve your "classic", so that it sounds better to you, or leave it alone while it's still working well?
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From a collectors perspective, beyond servicing (e.g. like for like recapping), do nothing that is not easily reversible without trace and keep all the original parts. Modding kit absolutely kills the resale value IME - I stop reading any classifieds or eBay listing as soon as I see the words 'upgraded with...'! Anything I've 'tweaked' myself can easily be restored to factory state.
 
A 'philosophical question'...so it won't have a certain answer. As 'colonel mad' points out, in this case it's probably best to do whatever you fancy, because values are not so high.
However, as a general principle, most buyers prefer originality....that's not so odd; if you buy (say) a Gyrodeck, it's probably because you want a Gyrodeck....
The issues become complex with vintage equipment. Are replacement parts 'original'? Again, originality is the key to value. But, as ever, there are plenty of exceptions...
NB: if you think this a bit 'severe', it's nothing compared with hobbyist fields such as guitars or mechanical watches.
 
paskinn said:
The issues become complex with vintage equipment. Are replacement parts 'original'? Again, originality is the key to value. But, as ever, there are plenty of exceptions...
NB: if you think this a bit 'severe', it's nothing compared with hobbyist fields such as guitars or mechanical watches.
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+1 in general. But I wonder if it is like the classic car market.

Mods are not usually a good thing at the top end (unless by Stirling Moss etc), but there are after-market mods on MGs/Stags etc which are considered value adders. I think reversibility is generally the watch word.

P
 
Having watched many antique shows on telly, paskinn, I'm well aware of the vagaries of what buyers decide is "suitable condition", and how pedantic they can be.
There's always going to be decisions as to whether the cost of improvements would exceed the cost and benefits of a newer deck.
Regarding a point made by TonyL, can the original motor be swapped back, following a change? Just curious.
This is a philosophical question, really, as I only listen to my vinyl infrequently, and am happy with the sound; doesn't stop me buying new records, though, what with all the re-issues abounding, even if they aren't cheap.
Certainly some pertinent points to ponder, though.
 
So, I have a matched pair (1961) of Quad II's and a spare, can I sell these 'as is' and hope for the best - how possibly can 50 plus years old capacitors and resistors still function with any sense of reliability.

Can these be serviced by anybody with the original components or will they need to be 'modified'
 
Artioneer said:
So, I have a matched pair (1961) of Quad II's and a spare, can I sell these 'as is' and hope for the best - how possibly can 50 plus years old capacitors and resistors still function with any sense of reliability.

Can these be serviced by anybody with the original components or will they need to be 'modified'
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In my opinion like-for-like servicing and cleaning adds value, especially if done by someone with market credibility (original manufacturer, better known third-parties). By like-for-like I mean replacing old capacitors with new ones of similar spec and fixing anything that needs fixing. To give an example I'd argue something like my Quad 303 would be pretty close to top end of the market as it is cosmetically all but mint and was serviced by Quad a few years ago. To my mind that's what you want and more desirable than one that was either entirely untouched for 30-40 years (i.e. likely not working correctly, or if so likely to fail soon), or one that had been modified with any of the many third-party tweaks, i.e. no longer as Peter Walker designed it. It is just a nice known-working Quad 303, nothing more.
 
With classic equipment there is always a nagging doubt about what the original owner may have done to it.

I like to know its original so I can do the upgrades. Sometimes I dont mind if the owner has carefully and sensibly upgraded it with recognised parts. The main thing is detailed information about what has been changed.

It all boils down to whether the past owners cared about the equipment. If I think its a loft find or botch job, I stay away.

I think you take each case seperately. The main thing for me is cosmetic condition so the plinth, platter, arm and lid would have to be looking pretty nice. I understand that belts bearings and motors wear over time but need to feel good about the quality and fit of the replacements.
 
Nothing to do with me, but as for collectable kit watch this NOS Ortofon arm fly! That's how you want to find vintage kit!
 
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If an old Planar 3 has the sticky-pad motor upgrade, is any potential future owner really going to complain? I wouldn't hesitate doing the motor upgrade or an aluminum sub-platter upgrade.

When does "used gear" become "classic gear"?
 
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When it's this.
 
Tony L said:
Nothing to do with me, but as for collectable kit watch this NOS Ortofon arm fly! That's how you want to find vintage kit!
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Naughty boy! That's why I try to avoid looking at Ebay; it only causes angst and envy. Gorgeous, lovely, a proper classic.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
If I was buying and a classic had been upgraded using manufacturer approved upgrades I would generally be fine with it. Other upgrades need to be judged on the credibility of the modifier ... but in general will usually degrade my interest in buying.

Nic P
 
I've said elsewhere that it depends on whether it's to use or a museum piece, also what it is. It's Fangio's Ferrari - that's staying as is, complete with rust spots and dents from racing. You'd be mad to do anything else. If it's a 1982 Porsche with a blown engine and you can easily drop in a later model engine to get better performance at lower cost than rebuilding, when you are using it on sunny days and occasionally on track, again it's a no-brainer. Other stuff can fall in between.
 
What's the oldest turntable, tonearm, and cartridge that will play 33.3 RPM stereo LP records to a reasonably modern standard?
 
Without wanting to sound too pompous, the key element in classics is 'integrity.' Items tend to become 'classics' because they personify the most desirable way to achieve a task...thus an 'E' type Jaguar goes fast, but with a breath-taking elegance and style.
Indeed, a key criteria for a Classic is that you find it hard to imagine it being different....they are, as they are.
Once you start modding or 'improving' an item, it's integrity gets compromised....it is no longer the same object. It might be 'better' or 'worse'...but it will certainly not be the same. For me, authenticity is everything...otherwise, just buy something more suitable for your needs.
 
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