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High-end 12" tonearms: what's out there?

hifi_dave said:
What do you hope to achieve that the 12 inch Ace Anna doesn't do ?
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The ability to play a different cart. without the hassles of changing cart's and associated alignment. Not a tweaker, but I s'pose there's the potential for chopping and changing to discover optimum compatibility at some stage.

Even plugging and unplugging phonos into/from the ph./stage doesn't appeal; I'm really a lazy git nowadays; just want to listen !:)
 
I really didn't expect so many viable suggestions, some of which I've never heard of (Vertex, e.g....chunky looking arm !)

I'm not really keen on the 'spindly' look (Morch) and despite the price, the V12 is/was a contender. However, I just can't get my head around a design, like the Phantom, which has SO many breaks in the wiring loom chain, although I believe you can order a V12 with a straight-through cable.

The question that hasn't been asked is ' why do I want two arms./stereo cart's when I can only play one at a time'? Well, y'see, I've got this forlorn-looking second arm base...............No, I haven't rationalised that one yet; working on it though !:)

Thanks all for some pretty good suggestions which have caused me to spend time on Google. The PU7, at that price range, is tempting (except for the weird biasing device). The O.L. Enterprise, despite its nearly £5K tag, looks the business, though, in my book.
 
paskinn said:
Why do I choose the SME V12 over some fine competitors? Because, on balance, it ticks more of the boxes than the competitors. It is arguably the best built, with the best service, the best packaging and the best resale prices. It also sounds very fine. Not necessarily 'better' sounding, because there are so many variables, including personal taste.
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Unfortunately it has chocolate bearings.
 
Mike Reed said:
I really didn't expect so many viable suggestions, some of which I've never heard of (Vertex, e.g....chunky looking arm !)

I just can't get my head around a design, like the Phantom, which has SO many breaks in the wiring loom chain, although I believe you can order a V12 with a straight-through cable.
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Yes, in theory the less breaks in the wire the better; but whenever I've had the chance to directly compare, I can detect no difference. I found a 'straight wirethrough' on the SME a complete pain in the posterior. If you break a tag (easily done) it gets seriously fiddly.
For that reason I can't really understand the refusal to consider a detached headshell. I doubt you, or anyone else, could tell the difference. The advantages are real....safer instillation of cartridges (and when you have a Koetsu.....) and easy swaps.
Looking back, the whole fixed headshell thing seems due to little more than fashion...rather like the scrapping of genuinely useful tone controls (also inaudible when properly done.) I find that when you check for yourself, a lot of audio 'truths' are just matters of taste..
 
Is that what he currently owns then? Is that what you (both) think the current state of the art is? If either of those is the case I am most surprised. Do I think the NA. Arm is in any way a model for how an arm should be designed, no I do not.
 
Mike Reed said:
I'm aware of the SME V12 and O.L. Conqueror & Enterprise, and already have an Ace Anna. Recently read a short review of the Audio Origami P7 (latest version), which is affordable relative to the first two. Don't want detachable head-shell.

Anyone point to others currently available or any comments otherwise?
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The Mörch dp 8.

Affordable?
Only you can tell.

Imho and by my experince.

Best tonearm available.
 
Well, I will be investing in a Reed arm on a couple of
months. It is much better sounding than an SME to me.
It also shares your surname!
 
Something has occurred to me; another approach might be to buy a decent second-hand SME 3012. Serviced by AO it would be a lovely thing, and with the detachable headshell, would be a fabulous match with an Ortofon SPU. So you'd have one modern arm, with Koetsu, and one vintage (but serviced) arm with a classic SPU.
You'd be likely to actually make a profit on this arm in the longer term. I've got a really good 3012 from 1967, fully serviced and boxed. I don't have a spare deck to use it on, but i'l never sell it. They are a pleasure to own, because they are one of audios few stone-cold 'classics'.
You could get a good one for about £750; allow £250 for a service, and you have a great arm and the prospect of future profit. BTW: SME don't service this arm anymore; but AO do, and I'm sure they do a good job. There's an expert in Canada too, who seems to have plenty of spares. No doubt there are others.
 
Peter, I had a 3012 in '69 (on 401 with V15) and lovely it was too. Rather think that it was designed with magnets in mind, and had a lowish eff. mass. Could be wrong here, but the SPU was one of very few coils then, and if I remember correctly, came with a load of step-up gubbins. Not for me then, or now, I'm afraid.

Don't think I've EVER had the same kit twice in 48 years, and unlikely to change now.:)
 
YNWOAN said:
Is that what he currently owns then? Is that what you (both) think the current state of the art is? If either of those is the case I am most surprised. Do I think the NA. Arm is in any way a model for how an arm should be designed, no I do not.
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Mark, your link to an Airfix model was lovely, though I couldn't quite see the relevance.:) Likewise, I don't know who the pronouns 'he' and 'you' refer to. Did someone hold up the N.A. arm (s?) as paragon(s) of virtue? I think mine's very good on many levels (and simpler than my previous SME V) but I don't recall seeing anywhere the Ace Anna described as the epitome of tonearm design.:)
 
Mike Reed said:
Lovely looking, if complicated looking cart. From the States, isn't it? Been reading on Google of some installation hassles involving arm-board cut-outs and wrongly calibrated protractors.
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Mike Hi, really couldn't say, GPA modify and mount all their Triplanars before dispatch.
Keith.
 
Apologies Mike. I didn't read your post properly and didn't see that you were ruling out the detachable headshell.

A shame IMHO but if that's the case, that rather rules out anything I've enjoyed from Japan. I really do think the SME V-12 is superb but I guess the Da Vinci would probably be the most "high end" of available twelves with a fixed headshell.
 
Being reallllly careful to simply provide factual information here....
...The Wand is available in 12in versions.
 
Any views on the SME 312 (pre-S)? I opted to take the ex-dem (more ex-show) 312 with my CTC 301, partly because I was offered a good price, partly because it comes with two head shells, partly because it looks good, and partly because I understand it's a fairly decent arm.
 
Be aware the Da Vinci tonearms were designed to work with their own cartridge and do not always work well with other makes of cartridge.
 
Vital said:
Any views on the SME 312 (pre-S)? I opted to take the ex-dem (more ex-show) 312 with my CTC 301, partly because I was offered a good price, partly because it comes with two head shells, partly because it looks good, and partly because I understand it's a fairly decent arm.
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That sounds a fair summary to me; the mass is quite high but for most moving coil cartridges, that is ok. Can't see any problem at all, it's a really good arm...more than a 'fairly decent' one.
For my sins I've owned a good few 'posh' arms over the years. As you'd expect they all had good points. But, over a period , all seemed to have engineering flaws too.
One simple example; too many arms try to 'lock' the arm/counterweight into the central column using just a little screw which presses against the side of the column. That's all that holds the arm/counterweight in vertical position. That can't be good...yet last time I looked, VPI, Graham and Triplaner all used this essentially crude method. Probably others do too. It was things like this (there are plenty more) which slowly led me back to SME; their engineering doesn't use crude solutions.
Same with the fashionable arms (such as Reed). They are well thought-out, and often have highly complex 'solutions' to issues such as azimuth. But wood absorbs moisture, it expands and contracts...so it doesn't bond naturally to metal. I doubt you could fully seal it.
 
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