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Thorens TD-124/II restoration / upgrade

yes, i remember this kind of experience. years ago i tested an old dilated belt and i couldn't beliefe my ears - at long last there was silence and the thorens started singing ... i was total happy! maybe you know the excellent precise 0 ring idler wheel from simone lucchetti (audiosilente)? with silicon 0-rings it runs supersilent,- a big improvement for very little money!
best baller
 
ballerman said:
....... maybe you know the excellent precise 0 ring idler wheel from simone lucchetti (audiosilente)? with silicon 0-rings it runs supersilent,- a big improvement for very little money!
best baller
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I've tried to make something like that but it did not work out so well! I see that he also makes graphite armboards for the TD124.
 
..he also produce sintered bronze motor bearings for a reasonable price! His 0-ring idler wheel works great! it has a very precise brass bearing, rumble noise/noise level is close /same to the original idler wheel (in perfect condition), but the main plattern is running with greater accuracy!
best baller
 
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The O-ring idler looks very interesting, let me know how you get on with it. I've got two idlers at present, the one that came with the deck, that's reasonable, but I'm not convinced it's actually a Thorens part, and one that Schopper fitted, that seems pretty decent. Both have a bit of up / down movement as they run, but I've never seen one without. I guess as long as it doesn't hit the speed-step below on the step-pulley it's ok. More important is the bearing and rubber softness. I'm surprised no one is making really high-quality replicas the way they have for Garrards.

I've ordered a pair of the motor bushings. I've no real intention of fitting them as my motor is running beautifully at present, I'd just like to have a spare pair knocking about.

Whilst we're on 3rd part parts I rather like the look of this slate armboard. Not clear how the SME screws / bolts would work though, i.e. has it got tapped inserts? A nut under the back right one would foul the chassis, so they have to have thought of some solution.
 
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ballerman said:
hi Shuggie,-concerning your order: ask simone , if he could include an extra (red) SILIKON O ring!
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He's doing that anyway. I'm curious about his graphite stuff, so I've now ordered a graphite armboard, since it's a reasonable €70 plus postage. Certainly looks good:

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Thoroughly enjoyed reading all 167 threads, well done Tony and Shuggie for offering such an insight to the workings of a 124.
I am quite a fussy person, but I don't think I would go as far as you have, my 124 has a bearing base plate Tom Fletcher made for me out of silver steel and he trued up the idler to be round, other than that it's standard.
I may be lucky, but after an oil change and cleaning/lubrication of moving parts my deck sounds pretty quiet to me, it still has the original belt which seems to be fine.

I have just put it in a Jim Campbel plinth and it looks great.

However maybe I should start collecting spare parts for this old machine.

I prefer to use it without the outer platter and I use a thin old record as a mat, I am also using an acrylic armboard at the moment, but I don't think it's that good, I bought an armboard from Jim, but it's too narrow for my Audio Technica 1503mk3 arm.

What is graphite? is there a web address for Martin, the guy that services 124 motors?

regards Al
 
trio leo said:
What is graphite? is there a web address for Martin, the guy that services 124 motors?

regards Al
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Graphite is what pencil leads are made from, but in its finest form is readily machinable, very stiff, and has very good self-damping properties, which is presumably why Nottingham Analogue have used it for some time for heavy platters. I've no idea if the graphite armboard is going to be any better than wood or alloy, but it's worth a go.

Martin Bastin does not have a web presence, nor e-mail.
 
I've experimented with making bits from graphite - platters and mats - it doesn't actually have particularly good self-damping as such and is not unlike aluminium in that respect.
 
The FM13.9" belt has arrived from TurntableBasics.com after being on backorder. It fits fine, plenty enough tension to do the job without being tight. For some reason it's slightly thicker in section than the FM13.5", more the thickness of say an LP12 belt, and at present isn't running as visually smoothly as the 13.5 - I suspect it got squashed in transit so it's got a slight 'twist / shimmer' as it runs between the pulleys. I can't hear any noise from this and I suspect it will flatten out after a week or two of normal usage - I'll pull the platter off again next month and see how it's running. It's certainly nice and quiet at present.

My conclusion is most of the 3rd party belts being specifically sold for TD-124s are way, way too short and tight. For the 50Hz pulley 13.5" or 13.9" both seem fine, shorter than that and to my mind there is far too much tension. I'll report back in a month or so once the 13.9" has bedded in, as I guess there's a chance it may stretch to be a bit too loose, but I doubt it. I just hope it manages to un-twist itself. I can certainly recommend the FM13.5", that's a very nice quiet belt.

I'm still delighted with the new stepped-pulley bushings, the combination of these and the new longer belts has got this deck running exactly as I suspect a good condition properly serviced TD-124 should. I'm running my old Audio Technica AT33PTG in the 3009 and it's sounding great!
 
I'm glad to hear that it's working OK at last Tony; has your quest for a mechanically quieter sounding deck resulted in an improvement in sound quality?
 
wylton said:
I'm glad to hear that it's working OK at last Tony; has your quest for a mechanically quieter sounding deck resulted in an improvement in sound quality?
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It's certainly sounding great, but much of the earlier issue was purely acoustic, it didn't actually translate to much rumble - I could just hear the thing whirring away from a few feet away and that annoyed me! The rumble picked up at the cart is acceptably low and has never been remotely noticeable in use at all regardless of how much the deck sounded like a washing machine at the time. It's a little higher than that from the heavy slate-mounted 301, but I'm sure that's down to the plinth, not the deck.

The TD-124 is a lovely sounding deck; coherent, integrated, solid and just fun to listen to - it bops along like a good 'un. It's now sounding the best it ever has, but some of that is down to it having a much better cart now than at any stage previously. I'm sure it will become my main deck one day. At present I have two systems with vinyl in regular use so don't need to make a decision, but when it comes to the crunch I suspect I'll keep the 124 and sell the 301, though not necessarily because it's the better deck!
 
wylton said:
Why not keep both? Once the Michell and Lenco are finished I'll have five decks!
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I certainly will for the foreseeable future, it's only if I downsize to a smaller house a good bit later in life that I imagine having a clear-out / rationalisation - I'll certainly keep two complete systems as long as I've still got two living rooms. I'm at 3.5 decks at the moment as I've also got one complete Lenco L70 and another beautifully refurbished one that needs a plinth and arm. Must think about what I'm doing there as I haven't got any context for them at present.
 
A couple of pics as i've not actually taken any of this one (i.e. since I swapped chassis over & fitted the new Schopper armboard and AT33PTG):

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The vinyl is a nice US Impulse original of Oliver Nelson's Sound Pieces. Nelson often gets overlooked, but he did some great stuff.
 
Beautiful. THE TURNTABLE.

I can understand why one would want to spend money and time getting this machine in perfect running order.
 
Quick belt update: I've come to the conclusion that 13.9" is a very good length, probably ideal, but the particular belt I have is not a good example. The 'twist / kink' thing hasn't reduced at all, and I suspect the increased wall-thickness over the 13.5" belt (not specified on the TTB site, but obvious on inspection) is a disadvantage. As I think Paul R predicted it runs very slightly faster than the thinner wall-thickness belt. I've stuck the 13.5" belt back on for the time being as it runs without the 'flapping' caused by the twist in the longer one and takes a little less eddy-brake to get to 33rpm. Both are perfectly useable, but that won't stop me looking for the perfect solution! Anyone know a source for really high quality flat thin belts about 350-355mm circumference by say 6mm or so?
 
I've just treated the TD-124 to a new cartridge:

9005339337_f7c6784362_o.jpg


I love the Ortofon 2M Black I'm running in the 301/M2-10 in the other room, so I thought I'd take a gamble on a NOS 540 Mk II from teh eBays as it's the direct forerunner and a heck of a lot cheaper. A slightly lower output than the 2M at 3mv, and a Fritz Gyger Type 70 tip rather than the (probably similar) Shibata in the Black. I've no idea how they compare as they are in different decks and different rooms, but I can say the 540 is lovely. A really quiet and clean tracker with no vices I can hear - it's nicely balanced and has that sure-footedness thing the black has. I'm completely sold on fancy tip profiles now, and I seem to be more than happy with MM carts too now I've got a handle on how loading works / impacts the sound (I'm running the 540 with 47K / 47pf on the phono stage and about 125pf or so of armlead). Seems happy enough in the 3009 too, at 25cu it's technically it's just a little too compliant for the 12.5g SME, but I've no suspension flopping about and my vinyl is pretty flat on the whole. It looks a good 'un!
 
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Interesting Tony. Been looking in to a new cart myself. Not sure what to get for the SME 3009 S2 (none improved) on the 124. Been told a Decca is a good choice and the Ortofon MC1 or MC3 HOMC carts but just not sure. The 540 looks like a winner though.
 
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