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Pre-amp suggestions for a Quad 303 please

P

PWM

Member
Hi everyone

I need some suggestions regarding suitable pre-amps for my newly acquired Quad 303 (late model, 90k serial number).

I am currently using a Rega P25 as my only source and a NAD 3020i as the pre-amp.

My budget might stretch to £200 for something exceptional but I would rather spend up to £150.

I used to have a naim nap/nac 90 pre/power combo but never really liked them (I have had good experiences with more expensive / older naim gear though!). I then bought a mission Cyrus one that really didn't suit me at all (too harsh / trebly).

I have been looking at Quad pre amps, but there are wildly varying opinions, I have also seen that you can get valve phono pre-amps imported from China that also strongly divide opinion.

All advice appreciated.
 
I would go for a Quad 34 or 44 if remote control isn't needed.

Both have the right output voltage for the 303 such that the volume control works over a decent range. The 44 is a lot more flexible, with modular inputs which can be easily reconfigured, and superb filtering. The 34 is neater, less obtrusive but doesn't have as many inputs or as comprehensive filtering.

Virtually all other pre-amps will need attenuating as Quad's power amps were more sensitive at 0.5v than others, or the volume control will be operating over a narrow range.

S.
 
Or even a Quad 33 if you want really divided opinion LOL.

Most people I know use a passive pre amp which seems to work well with the 303.

I am using a Glasshouse TVC passive pre which works very nicely.
 
Thanks both, I looked at the 34, it seems like a good option.

I also read a few things about passive pre-amps - what are the merits of the these (perhaps "differences" might be a better word) when compared to standard pre-amps?
 
I've tried my 303 with four preamps: a rather sick 33, a very early bronze coloured DIN 34, a Audio Synthesis PAS O2 stepped attenuator and a Croft Micro 25R. The two Quads can largely be ruled out as being unsuited for modern line level inputs, they just sound over-loud, saturated and have no usable range on the volume knob, e.g. on my 34 with CD the first click of the volume is loud, the second too loud, the rest deafening via my admittedly very efficient Klipsch Heresys. It sounds nice on it's phono stage though and would work fine with a Quad tuner, but CD, TV, DACs etc definitely need additional attenuation to be usable. The PAS 02 sounds lovely; open, clear, but being a passive it needs to like what's upstream of it and you need short and sensible interconnects. Predictably the Croft is the best of the lot and really makes for a nice combo with the 303, in fact I could happily live with this pairing as my main amp. It has a little more weight, solidity and power than the passive and looses little in transparency, plus brings that 'tube thing' that always helps with digital sources IME, plus one can tube-roll it to taste. The negative is it's far, far outside the budget range here!

Trying to keep within budget the preamps I'd consider would be a late grey RCA Quad 34 (the input gain isn't insane with these), a passive (the 303 really is an ideal candidate as long as your source components are in range) or maybe a few curve-balls like an old Crimson, Meridian etc.
 
i've got a 44 which is nice (to look at). Also a creek obh-22 for remote control passive. i've not tried them with one of my 303s though.
 
andy831 said:
Or even a Quad 33 if you want really divided opinion LOL.

Most people I know use a passive pre amp which seems to work well with the 303.

I am using a Glasshouse TVC passive pre which works very nicely.
Click to expand...

My only reluctance to suggest a 33 is that of age and hence possible condition and reliability...those plug-in modules...However, yes a 33 would be very much in keeping.

I also agree on the passive controller. Quads, with their 0.5v input sensitivity work very well with a simple passive. Provided one doesn't want tone controls or need RIAA eq, then a passive works very well.

S.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Are there any s/h passive pre amps within my budget?

I have read a few very disparaging write ups of both the 33 and 34 - is this just internet noise, or will my current pre-amp outperform them? I realise this is all very subjective, but all opinions greatfully received.
 
PWM said:
I have read a few very disparaging write ups of both the 33 and 34 - is this just internet noise, or will my current pre-amp outperform them? I realise this is all very subjective, but all opinions greatfully received.
Click to expand...

A lot is sadly grounded in fact when it comes to the 33 and early 34 - things have moved passed them to the point they are largely irrelevant. The thing I really need to get across is they are just not suitable for modern 2v peak to peak line level inputs unless you use attenuated interconnects. Their input gain is designed for 100 to 500mV depending on specific input, so they saturate / clip when presented with a typical modern CD player or DAC, plus as I explained above the usable range of travel on the volume knob in this context is only a couple of degrees due to this issue. The late grey 34 is a whole different beast and is certainly worthy of consideration.

I absolutely love the 33 as a piece of design, plus, along with a 303, it was the first hi-fi amp I ever owned, so I have a real soft spot for it. I have a very tidy one sitting with a FM3 tuner on a shelf as an ornament. It makes far more sense there than in the system. The 303 is a whole different thing, it's a lovely power amp and still perfectly valid today.
 
I use a Croft 25 with my Quad 909 (very different granted) and love the results, such a solid sound, had much more weight than other solutions.

I have just read the following though which may be of interest suggesting a very (very) simple pre works best:

'I hate to admit it, but I can gradually see myself becoming a purist and audiophile. The best sound I've had from a 303 is driving a pair of them as a dual mono bi-amp setup, straight from a CD player via a passive pre-amp containing nothing but a stepped attenuator (an exotic name for a volume control). To get away with this, you need a CD player with a good audio front end, and one which can supply enough current to drive the ~25k Ohm load of a pair of 303s - otherwise bass and dynamics will badly suffer. Shunt resistance in the signal lines helps reduce the current demand at the expense of volume level, really it's all down to the actual CD player.'

Taken from: http://www.briarsfield-hifi.co.uk/quad_303_overview.htm
 
Back in the day I had a 3020a linked with a 303.

I then moved to a 33 when vinyl was my main source. This was a downgrade as the 33 magnet phono stage is extremely compressed. I then obtained a mid serial number 34 (din connections), this was definitely an improvement but as Tony stated required attenuation for modern line levels.

I now use a late phono 34 and have recently upgraded the opamps and caps which made quite an improvement. I still use a 303 although I have recently converted my output stage to push pull and improved various components.
 
Tony L said:
A lot is sadly grounded in fact when it comes to the 33 and early 34 - things have moved passed them to the point they are largely irrelevant. The thing I really need to get across is they are just not suitable for modern 2v peak to peak line level inputs unless you use attenuated interconnects. Their input gain is designed for 100 to 500mV depending on specific input, so they saturate / clip when presented with a typical modern CD player or DAC, plus as I explained above the usable range of travel on the volume knob in this context is only a couple of degrees due to this issue. The late grey 34 is a whole different beast and is certainly worthy of consideration.

I absolutely love the 33 as a piece of design, plus, along with a 303, it was the first hi-fi amp I ever owned, so I have a real soft spot for it. I have a very tidy one sitting with a FM3 tuner on a shelf as an ornament. It makes far more sense there than in the system. The 303 is a whole different thing, it's a lovely power amp and still perfectly valid today.
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Although, it's trivially easy to change the input sensitivities of the older 34 to match modern 2v sources, so not needing attenuated interconnects. It does need the ability to use a soldering iron, but apart from that, not a problem.

As far as I'm aware, except for sensitivity, there's no difference between early and late 34s.

S.
 
PWM said:
I have read a few very disparaging write ups of both the 33 and 34 - is this just internet noise, or will my current pre-amp outperform them? I realise this is all very subjective, but all opinions greatfully received.
Click to expand...

Correct, all internet noise, plus the give-a-dog-a-bad-name nonsense that bedevils the hi-fi fraternity (it is not so long ago that you couldn't give away a Garrard 301 or 401). Apart from the point that Tony makes (that attenuated connectors are needed for CD), they are perfectly fine. I may be a deaf old git, but I have trialled other more modern pre-amps against my old 33 and have observed no difference whatsoever. I now use a 44, because it offers more connection possibilities, but if it weren't for that, I'd still use the 33.
 
Here's a pic of my 33 & FM3 sitting on their shelf as an ornament:

7297496092_764cb6f318_o.jpg


Some of the best looking bits of hi-fi ever made IMO, true 1960s design classics. I've owned that FM3 since the late 70s, it was part of my very first system - I had the cool wood case for it and the 33 back then too. This 33 is built out of a couple to make a tidy one, but it's mainly the one that came with my Tannoy eBay 'radiogram' find from a few years back, as is my 303. They are very early ones from about 1969 or so. The 33 would need a service to function as anything other than an ornament as it makes all kinds of hissy / crackly / farty noises when powered up. I got the 303 fully serviced and that's in daily use - the TV is going through it right now. Vintage Quad is great kit IMO.
 
It's also worth bearing in mind that many 33s have been serviced by Quad and often had updated cards fitted - this freshens them up considerably - and also had the sensitivity sorted for use with CD. The 44 makes card updating even easier and a later CD/AUX input card can usually be picked up for around £20-30.

There's something rather lovely about the sound of the sound of a healthy 33/303/FM3 set. Easy listening but curiously engaging too, without ever being boring.
 
Thanks everyone.

I really only use my record player... I used to occassionally put the tv through the hifi but most of the time it seems a bit pointless - the news doesn't need a soundstage (although there's plenty of prat... sorry...!)

I will keep my eyes peeled for a late model 34 with phono inputs unless anyone knows of a decent phono stage with a volume control.
 
Tony L said:
I absolutely love the 33 as a piece of design, plus, along with a 303, it was the first hi-fi amp I ever owned, so I have a real soft spot for it. I have a very tidy one sitting with a FM3 tuner on a shelf as an ornament. It makes far more sense there than in the system. The 303 is a whole different thing, it's a lovely power amp and still perfectly valid today.
Click to expand...

Ditto..and although my 33/303 are long gone, I too have kept the FM 3 boxed and safely stored for the future.

The 303 was a super bit of kit, except when one of the PSU caps decided to re-decorate the ceiling of my student flat with its electrolyte.

I moved from the 33/303 to a Meridian 101 paired with a 405 Mk1 - worked well fed by a Thorens deck, then later my first LP12.
 
Jo Sharp said:
The 303 was a super bit of kit, except when one of the PSU caps decided to re-decorate the ceiling of my student flat with its electrolyte.
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You must have had a later one with upward facing caps, my original one spewed it's cap contents downwards all over one of the amp boards - that memory is the main reason I sent this one back to Quad for a full service before using it!
 
Tony L said:
You must have had a later one with upward facing caps, my original one spewed it's cap contents downwards all over one of the amp boards - that memory is the main reason I sent this one back to Quad for a full service before using it!
Click to expand...

Roughly how much do Quad charge to service a 303? Or does it depend on the work that needs doing?
 
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