Hi-Fi Choice on the endangered species list!
- Thread starter Evil Emperor
- Start date
had to rofl 
ciderglider
pfm Member
There's certainly more information on a forum, but whether it's as well informed is another question.
Anyway, I can't shed too many tears over the departure of HiFi Choice, it's like HFNRR for slow learners.
It is still sad, because even poorish mags (which was how I saw 'Choice') were still mags about our hobby. The more they shrink, the more our hobby shrinks (actually, I suppose it is the other way round!). I suspect that there is a 'business model' which would sustain a first rate hobbyist magazine, but it won't be run by some big corporation, with all the overheads that entails. Might even be a mix of internet and print. Everything is up for grabs.
Analogue Andy
Active Member
I still subscribe to Hifi+ but find fewer articles and reviews of interest with each issue. The rot started with their purchase by TAS and then editor Roy's move to richer pastures with Nordost and the increasingly rare appearances by some of their previously more regular writers. I don't like the newer size and two column layout as the older format was far easier on the eye.
HiFi Choice is an interesting read, although I am only a casual reader and I can think of one or two HiFi magazines I would sooner see the demise of before them.
Ptah
pfm Member
That will mean a lot of unemployed people in Bath - which is sad.
I've never cared for Felix Dennis's publications much. Amazing to think he was one of the Oz trio in 1971. Or maybe not.
I can also do without reading any more of Mr Steward's Naim reviews - with their 'anal retentiveness to detail' and all that cobblers.
I'd go for a low-budget revival of the original HFC - all the current models of a genre reviewed thoroughly by a couple of trustworthy writers. I guess HiFi Critic is pretty much the nearest to it (and the same people!)
I've never cared for Felix Dennis's publications much. Amazing to think he was one of the Oz trio in 1971. Or maybe not.
I can also do without reading any more of Mr Steward's Naim reviews - with their 'anal retentiveness to detail' and all that cobblers.
I'd go for a low-budget revival of the original HFC - all the current models of a genre reviewed thoroughly by a couple of trustworthy writers. I guess HiFi Critic is pretty much the nearest to it (and the same people!)
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
I must admit, I haven't read Choice in many years (but then I don't read News, or World either), but I would still like it to remain (I think I will buy a copy tomorrow).
With regard to reviews, I like the in-depth element of the reports that + produces, lots of background and explanation. Unfortunately, the actual meat of the review, the sound, is often only a short paragraph. Back in the day, the review of the sound was much more extensive. If an arm was reviewed it was tried with different cartridges and different decks, for example. In addition, I'm not interested in 'it's Ace - buy it' or 'it's crap' reviews - I want considered views - the strengths and the weaknesses - what does the component work well with, what is it less well suited to - what is the character of the sound; too often, one has to read between the lines to get these aspects.
With regard to reviews, I like the in-depth element of the reports that + produces, lots of background and explanation. Unfortunately, the actual meat of the review, the sound, is often only a short paragraph. Back in the day, the review of the sound was much more extensive. If an arm was reviewed it was tried with different cartridges and different decks, for example. In addition, I'm not interested in 'it's Ace - buy it' or 'it's crap' reviews - I want considered views - the strengths and the weaknesses - what does the component work well with, what is it less well suited to - what is the character of the sound; too often, one has to read between the lines to get these aspects.
SCIDB
Triode Man
All current hifi comics aren't worth reading aside from the very very occasional interesting article. Stereophile and the Absolute Sound are pale reminders of their former selves. Same old gang of tired reviewers, some still auditioning gear with audiophile crap such as Mary Black, Rebecca Pigeon etc.
Stuff on the web can often be far more informative and entertaining, once you separate the wheat from the chaff.
Stuff on the web can often be far more informative and entertaining, once you separate the wheat from the chaff.
Evil Emperor
Taller Than Stalin
Actually, I find the forums the worst possible place to make any buying decision. People are idiots, their conclusions are under-powered, under-researched and driven by even more agendas than the paid press.
We've gone from relying on expert opinion to relying on the noise of the loud-mouth. In the process, the experts stopped caring about being experts and just sold their souls to the highest bidder. The paid reviews should be the highest common factor, honest and professional assessment of hi-fi equipment. I used to think the blind group tests of Hi-Fi Choice were the embodiment of that goal, but that all changed, perhaps because there was no longer enough of a market to keep a single-theme hi-fi magazine viable.
We've got so used to knuckle-dragging forum dickheads posing as 'experts' that we no longer value or even recognise experience, expertise and considered opinion. Even though I disagree with almost every conclusion he comes up with, I still value the writing of Robert E Greene in TAS. I'd still rather pay for the measured, considered opinion of an expert with years of experience and a body of published work, but most people are so convinced by the sound of their own voices that they prefer the lowest common denominator.
The crazy thing is people are prepared to take the say-so from someone who may have no knowledge, no experience and no idea just because its free when making an extremely expensive purchase. Perhaps this says bad things about the paid reviews, but I also think it says more about how stupid we've all become.
I learned this from the camera site DPReview. It runs professional reviews and these often contradict the negative opinions of the forum members. If you read the pro reviews, you'll see many 'Highly Recommended' cameras that are called 'fundamentally flawed' by the forum posters. But when you view the reasons why the camera is 'fundamentally flawed' (and the poster's history of calling out every camera they have ever owned as 'fundamentally flawed') you discover that it's the sort of flaw you only spot if you photograph broadsheet newspapers and nothing more. Sony ended up discontinuing a camera not because it was bad, but because some measurebator on a forum decided it wasn't good at doing something it wasn't intended to do and shouted long and hard about it.
The forums aren't an egalitarian space where unbiased folk dish out good advice, it's like The Lord of the Flies, without a conch. Mob rule is not democracy. It's mob rule.
We've gone from relying on expert opinion to relying on the noise of the loud-mouth. In the process, the experts stopped caring about being experts and just sold their souls to the highest bidder. The paid reviews should be the highest common factor, honest and professional assessment of hi-fi equipment. I used to think the blind group tests of Hi-Fi Choice were the embodiment of that goal, but that all changed, perhaps because there was no longer enough of a market to keep a single-theme hi-fi magazine viable.
We've got so used to knuckle-dragging forum dickheads posing as 'experts' that we no longer value or even recognise experience, expertise and considered opinion. Even though I disagree with almost every conclusion he comes up with, I still value the writing of Robert E Greene in TAS. I'd still rather pay for the measured, considered opinion of an expert with years of experience and a body of published work, but most people are so convinced by the sound of their own voices that they prefer the lowest common denominator.
The crazy thing is people are prepared to take the say-so from someone who may have no knowledge, no experience and no idea just because its free when making an extremely expensive purchase. Perhaps this says bad things about the paid reviews, but I also think it says more about how stupid we've all become.
I learned this from the camera site DPReview. It runs professional reviews and these often contradict the negative opinions of the forum members. If you read the pro reviews, you'll see many 'Highly Recommended' cameras that are called 'fundamentally flawed' by the forum posters. But when you view the reasons why the camera is 'fundamentally flawed' (and the poster's history of calling out every camera they have ever owned as 'fundamentally flawed') you discover that it's the sort of flaw you only spot if you photograph broadsheet newspapers and nothing more. Sony ended up discontinuing a camera not because it was bad, but because some measurebator on a forum decided it wasn't good at doing something it wasn't intended to do and shouted long and hard about it.
The forums aren't an egalitarian space where unbiased folk dish out good advice, it's like The Lord of the Flies, without a conch. Mob rule is not democracy. It's mob rule.
Sir, have a cold beer on me.
Seldom, if ever, have i a read such a concise and accurate statement.
Let alone one that needed very, very much to be said.
That's a bit like the goldminer who knows there is gold in them there hills, but doesn't know where.......
Forums don't begin to replace print magazines.They do quite different things...for a start, magazines are answerable for what they write, and the journalists have real names.......
Re-Joyce
... Jason H that is.
well said.
Excellent!
Well said that man!
I regularly get people coming here or asking advise because they have sold/got ride of a perfectly good piece of equipment and bought something raved about by someone(s) on some forum, only to find out what he bought was not as good as what he just got rid of!
martin clark
pinko bodger
While there remain ways in which older media fail that is an excellent post, EvilEmperor.
Jonathan Ribee
Unavailable at present
Excellent post your imperial highness.
I particularly like the desire to convince someone to get the thing that they have got to reinforce self worth.
I particularly like the desire to convince someone to get the thing that they have got to reinforce self worth.
The problem is that the quality of hifi print media has deteriorated so much. I don't understand why people immediately assume that I meant fora as better alternatives. Actually hifi fora are the worst places to go and seek advice or look for info, this place included. I was referring more to online magazines and some of the sites run by enthusiasts.
The hifi print media is also facing the same challenges from the web as other print media.
Ultimately I don't believe you should rely on reviews for purchasing; there's no substitute for listening to the kit. You can use the net for finding out a bit more about the gear and then you have to go out and listen to it.
The hifi print media is also facing the same challenges from the web as other print media.
Ultimately I don't believe you should rely on reviews for purchasing; there's no substitute for listening to the kit. You can use the net for finding out a bit more about the gear and then you have to go out and listen to it.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
I thought the old HiFi Choice books were great, especially the Angus McKenzie speaker books.