Could you give me some examples? PM me if you don't want the audiophile companies to hear!
"Audiophile" quality hardware in the music industry.
- Thread starter Alan
- Start date
Could you give me some examples? PM me if you don't want the audiophile companies to hear!
Greg
2t5b
a handful of studio monitors I've listened to have been ultra clinical, the Yamaha HS80M being a case in point (though that may have been in part due to the source), but typically (as you know) certain near field monitorsare intended for quite specific purposes, such as hearing how a mix would sound on a typical small hifi, car radio, etc. I.E. the pro use in this context (and in mid and main monitoring) is part of a job of work - professional analysis - rather than sitting back and enjoying the music.
This of course doesn't mean studio monitors per se are that way. Personally I'm far more interested in investing in a good pair of big, pro monitors than in a typical pair of floor standing, veneered "hifi" speakers, which are designed to a certain size and shape as not to offend the living room, have box issues and no bass to speak of. I guess all I'm saying is that buying pro gear could end up with an end result that is too clinical, purely due to the specific choices made, rather than the decision to buy pro gear.
Still
he said his naim was ralph
For me LS3/5a, LS5/8 & ATC
I see this debate has started to heat up. 
Someone asked if I had ever heard an "Apogee" .. Yes.. I use Apogee in my "home" studio.. fed from a DDA QII mixing console (ex FOH from the old London Astoria fyi which I have had the pleasure of servicing myself.).
My partner is currently in a band which has Pink Floyd's sound engineer on guitar and they use a lot of ex-Astoria eqpt in their set-up.. (the boat.. not the venue). I've also been doing some of their live concert FOH mixing. I've also lent them my active ATC's and some other gear as I deemed it more important for their recordings to sound better than mine. ;-)
So, yes, I'm quite well placed and fully capable of making critical observations of all this gear and yes, I reckon the recording industry requires something drastically new from some new players.
Take, for example, the quality and size of PSU's used in all this gear.. My DDA desk has a transformer that makes the ones Naim use look like polo mints. Open the thing up though and it's full of computer ribbon cables transferring the sound between circuit boards. In fairness, I doubt I would be so critical if it was a Neve.
On the AD / DA side though everything I have come across could be vastly improved. No-one I have come across makes converters that have an upgradeable outboard PSU for example and I bet no-one would argue that a Naim CDX sounds better without the XPS.
My initial point though was that the market is ripe for audiophile companies to now enter into this. The amount of money spent by the millionaire rock-stars who do care about "eek"ing out maximum sound fidelity is quite staggering. "A half million quid on a cable upgrade?.. Here's the cheque sir.."
And looking at the lower consumer/prosumer offerings from the likes of MOTU / Focusrite etc.. Why do they insist on trying to cram everything into a one-box solution? How many firewire chipsets get fried each year because a cable gets accidentally unplugged before power-down?
I know what I would like to see and I'm fairly sure it's something the big studios would be very interested in. But at the moment, it just doesn't exist.
-A-
Someone asked if I had ever heard an "Apogee" .. Yes.. I use Apogee in my "home" studio.. fed from a DDA QII mixing console (ex FOH from the old London Astoria fyi which I have had the pleasure of servicing myself.).
My partner is currently in a band which has Pink Floyd's sound engineer on guitar and they use a lot of ex-Astoria eqpt in their set-up.. (the boat.. not the venue). I've also been doing some of their live concert FOH mixing. I've also lent them my active ATC's and some other gear as I deemed it more important for their recordings to sound better than mine. ;-)
So, yes, I'm quite well placed and fully capable of making critical observations of all this gear and yes, I reckon the recording industry requires something drastically new from some new players.
Take, for example, the quality and size of PSU's used in all this gear.. My DDA desk has a transformer that makes the ones Naim use look like polo mints. Open the thing up though and it's full of computer ribbon cables transferring the sound between circuit boards. In fairness, I doubt I would be so critical if it was a Neve.
On the AD / DA side though everything I have come across could be vastly improved. No-one I have come across makes converters that have an upgradeable outboard PSU for example and I bet no-one would argue that a Naim CDX sounds better without the XPS.
My initial point though was that the market is ripe for audiophile companies to now enter into this. The amount of money spent by the millionaire rock-stars who do care about "eek"ing out maximum sound fidelity is quite staggering. "A half million quid on a cable upgrade?.. Here's the cheque sir.."
And looking at the lower consumer/prosumer offerings from the likes of MOTU / Focusrite etc.. Why do they insist on trying to cram everything into a one-box solution? How many firewire chipsets get fried each year because a cable gets accidentally unplugged before power-down?
I know what I would like to see and I'm fairly sure it's something the big studios would be very interested in. But at the moment, it just doesn't exist.
-A-
darrylfunk
Banned
i am puzzled by why you are comparing a very expensive home cd player to a budget semi pro adc/dac ?
your point could be more eloquently put with a more like for like comparison.
my current home studio system blows my old naim cd out of the water and i'm puzzled as to why your saying protools sucks ....many fantastic recordings have been made using it and many poor ones made on huge neve and ssl to tape systems.....
maybe you can push the subject along.....
my feeling is naim could have made a one box cd player or at least not had the need to upgrade it as a sales tactic.
i have heard neve rebuilds sound better than the originals because a bit more care has been taken on the work regarding the physical engineering side.....
so please carry on!!!
your point could be more eloquently put with a more like for like comparison.
my current home studio system blows my old naim cd out of the water and i'm puzzled as to why your saying protools sucks ....many fantastic recordings have been made using it and many poor ones made on huge neve and ssl to tape systems.....
maybe you can push the subject along.....
my feeling is naim could have made a one box cd player or at least not had the need to upgrade it as a sales tactic.
i have heard neve rebuilds sound better than the originals because a bit more care has been taken on the work regarding the physical engineering side.....
so please carry on!!!
Hmm. Since when was an "improvement" in sound quality just a mere sales tactic? Isn't that part of what this is all about? This quest for faithful and detailed reproduction, believe it or not, does get driven mainly by those who listen to the recordings at home. If it was any different then everyone in the music industry would be quite content to record onto a TDK D90.. job done.
Alan,
Do you know how recording studios make here money? (I'm not being sarcastic) doesn't it also depend on the big labels and their money making business model (perhaps in the future hi res is pushed to the mass market); are they willing to pay for better quality, at this moment. Or is money really no issue? Interesting topic.
KR, Fred
Do you know how recording studios make here money? (I'm not being sarcastic) doesn't it also depend on the big labels and their money making business model (perhaps in the future hi res is pushed to the mass market); are they willing to pay for better quality, at this moment. Or is money really no issue? Interesting topic.
KR, Fred
darrylfunk
Banned
well you mentioned naim, so my view is now they are a company that needs to have constant 'upgrade' sales so they make modular systems as an 'opiate' for the typical tweaky upgrader ...that's there new business model.
after all julian started out building mini mixers and p.a. gear and tried to simplify gear to maximise sound quality and reliability.
i don't believe that naim could make a desk better than say ssl or trident / neve etc for less money.
what's for instance, wrong in your opinion about the prism dac's you just criticised?
I would say that the business model of the recording studio depends on it's size, equipment, location and kudos.
There will never be a shortage of bands wanting to record their music.. whether they then go on to make any money themselves is something else entirely.
Taking out a second mortgage so you can afford a session in Abbey Road does not mean a band automatically becomes the biggest thing since the Beatles.
To be honest, the best advice I could give to a band who don't rely on any production techniques for their "sound".. i.e.. A band who can string together a song without edits..
.. would be to save up and go to somewhere like Nashville to record.
There will never be a shortage of bands wanting to record their music.. whether they then go on to make any money themselves is something else entirely.
Taking out a second mortgage so you can afford a session in Abbey Road does not mean a band automatically becomes the biggest thing since the Beatles.
To be honest, the best advice I could give to a band who don't rely on any production techniques for their "sound".. i.e.. A band who can string together a song without edits..
.. would be to save up and go to somewhere like Nashville to record.
Putting the PSU / transformer inside the same box as the pre-amps for starters.. and this goes for most pieces of equipment that have a gain control.
Transformer = Hum.
Pre-Amp = Microphonics
Hum + Microphonics = ...
Greg
2t5b
Your point about PSUs is difficult to reject IMO.
I dunno. I managed to swap my CDSII for a Jaguar 4.0 V8 S-Type... Couldn't of got away with that a few years ago. ;-)
darrylfunk
Banned
so prism dac's suffer from microphonics then and hum.....interesting can you show me this cos' mine doesn't and it's been used on about 20 odd released records amounting to a few hours of music with in excess of 180,000 sales just in the last year !!!
i'm sure someone would have noticed if it hummed......
a nice graph or measurement would be nice....not that i use the internal mic pre's much i tend to use a ropey old valve one which must be even worse.......
i'm sure someone would have noticed if it hummed......
a nice graph or measurement would be nice....not that i use the internal mic pre's much i tend to use a ropey old valve one which must be even worse.......
so prism dac's suffer from microphonics then and hum.....interesting can you show me this cos' mine doesn't and it's been used on about 20 odd released records amounting to a few hours of music with in excess of 180,000 sales just in the last year !!!
i'm sure someone would have noticed if it hummed......
a nice graph or measurement would be nice....not that i use the internal mic pre's much i tend to use a ropey old valve one which must be even worse.......
Even Prism went to some lengths with their "galvanic isolation" to reduce hum in the Orpheus but it's good to see people still making a living out of the recording industry. But hey, if I were really in it for the money I wouldn't of started this thread as I'd be too busy writing advertising jingles. ;-)
darrylfunk
Banned
i didn't say i make money out of it though alan....i wish i did.
i am a part timer now......
i'd still like to see where this hum & microphonics is.... i have never experienced it with any of the outboard dacs or pre/dacs i have used.
i am a part timer now......
i'd still like to see where this hum & microphonics is.... i have never experienced it with any of the outboard dacs or pre/dacs i have used.
lol.. Don't you start!
cooky1257
pfm Member
Hmm so if I've got this right we have pro gear/brands that colour the sound/hums/suffers with microphonics/compromised by inadequate power supplies etc etc, and we have audiophile brands that make them look like toys in terms of sound quality and yet if the former were true the latter would still sound as crap as the pro gear is responsible for the recordings....
You want to get yourself signed up for MCPS then and take some control of your mechanical copyright.
Unless you are accepting a "flat fee" for services, then the copyright of the recording belongs to the person making it. PRS deals with the songwriting and musical composition, MCPS for those providing the mechanical means.
As for the transformer hum in any piece of equipment, it's the same old story.. you probably won't notice it until you find a way of isolating the PSU from the equipment.. have some sort of divine sonic awakening and then wonder why they didn't do it in the first place.
My next little project is to modify an old ION Obelisk X-PAK-1 PSU I've got to provide 24 VAC to whatever gear I've got that can use it.