Tim Jones
pfm Member
Most of the audiences at these events are picked political invitees, As were those who attended the Corbyn speech yesterday. Your own post makes the point that she was there to 'meet her supporters'.
What's the PM going to announce?
- Thread starter fay spook
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Most of the audiences at these events are picked political invitees, As were those who attended the Corbyn speech yesterday. Your own post makes the point that she was there to 'meet her supporters'.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
It will be interesting to see if the Brexit cloak will keep people diverted enough not to notice they are being forced to swallow tax increases, the unlocking of the triple lock etc., moves that in other times might attract far more ire.
Then we have credit fuelled consumer spending slowing down sharply and absolutely no hand to play, whatever the bluster, in negotiations. Good time for an election, before there is anything to actually be judged on.
Then we have credit fuelled consumer spending slowing down sharply and absolutely no hand to play, whatever the bluster, in negotiations. Good time for an election, before there is anything to actually be judged on.
merlin
Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.
If the British public vote for this crap again then I'm afraid they deserve all the problems they encounter.
40 years really should be long enough to see the trick and use just a little brain. The trouble is that for enough of the UK, the idea of society is completely alien unless they find themselves in need. Thatcherism was the destruction of socialism with a small 'S'
40 years really should be long enough to see the trick and use just a little brain. The trouble is that for enough of the UK, the idea of society is completely alien unless they find themselves in need. Thatcherism was the destruction of socialism with a small 'S'
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
But but Donald is our special friend, this must be fake news.......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434466/EU-ahead-Britain-trade-deals-say-officials.html
He wouldn't put the EU before us, would he? I mean that makes economic sense but where's his loyalty to the saintly Theresa and what happened at that frosty meeting with Mrs Merkel? I think we should be told.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434466/EU-ahead-Britain-trade-deals-say-officials.html
He wouldn't put the EU before us, would he? I mean that makes economic sense but where's his loyalty to the saintly Theresa and what happened at that frosty meeting with Mrs Merkel? I think we should be told.
maxflinn
pfm Member
I'm not sure what you mean when you say there may have been a blip in the polls. The fact is that Labour were pretty close to the Tories according to polling.
I also don't agree that they would have needed to be a good bit ahead to make headway in terms of forming a government. That makes no sense. A party can rise or fall in popularity from any position of popularity at any time.
It sounds like your subconsciously letting your bias creep in here.
Many leaders of party's must have at one point been short of the kind of support needed to become a PM, but became PM all the same.
There's no hard and fast rules.
Gassor, Trump being Trump has earned this unpopularity rating, but there's a certain irony here that you clearly don't see:
Why do you think Putin is so unpopular?
It is precisely because of the media, who along with the establishment both in Blighty and the US has blamed him for basically everything from the trouble in Ukraine, to Brexit, to ISIS, to Syria to even fixing the US election, and so on...
Government/media propaganda works! Even when the facts are so readily available, or no facts to support said propaganda are available, it still works and 'generally' supersedes the facts in the consciousness of the masses, the result being opinions being broadly formed on the basis of said propaganda, not facts.
The day Corbyn was elected as leader I said on here that he would face an unrelenting smear campaign from certain quarters, including the right-wing elements of his own party. People that have no business being in the Labour Party, IMO.
That started that day, if not even before when he looked like winning, as the 'Corbyn is unelectable' meme was born.
Just as a few years previous the 'Labour can't be trusted with the economy' meme was born, and what a success that was...
A few short days later and the Tories created another meme, that 'Corbyn was bad for Britain's security'. They even released a video that they created which tried to portray him as some kind of supporter of Bin Laden and ISIS, complete with eery music and imagery. Very similar to the one the Israel lobby in the US created to try to paint Trump as a 'friend of dictators'.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same 'production company' made both..
Most of the Jewish donors to the Labour Party - all of whom are big supporters of the most extreme right-wing government in Israel's history - who are amongst the biggest donors to the supposedly left-wing Labour Party
, stopped donating after he became leader, and started complaining.Then we had the completely fabricated anti-Semitism scandal which, in fairness was made 100 times worse by the utterly stupid and extremely insensitive - however historically correct - bleatings of Ken Livingstone.
Then we had the choreographed coup of last summer, during which every MP to leave his back-bench just happened to do so live on air
We even seen warmongering Neocon scum like Alistair Campbell wheeled out to give a running commentary on all the live-on-air resignations.
All this as virtually all newspapers added to the furore with their own hit-pieces which came day-after-day, and regurgitated all the spin, and repeated the memes.
Is it any wonder when faced with this pressure that Corbyn often stuttered and stammered? Would you? I would certainly feel such pressure. Imagine what it was like for him having to do PMQs under these circumstances with the majority of Parliament joining in the ridiculing of him, live on air.
All the while the 'reporters' from the BBC, Sky, Ch4 etc asked constantly when he would be going, how he could stay and so on.
AFAIC the man has balls of steel to have weathered all that!
But you think it's all nonsense and the main reason he's not polling well is because he's inept?
No, of course this has all had a massive effect on public opinion. True, he's no Kennedy, Martin Luther King or even Bernie Sanders. He's not a great charismatic leader, but he's incorruptible, honest and full of integrity, and his policies are very good. They are very sensible, but how many people look past the propaganda at these policies? That's the question.
He doesn't envisage Britain becoming a social utopia - another meme cooked up and spewed around. He just sees the obvious: that inequality needs to be tackled, austerity is creating problems for all but the wealthy, and it is from the wealthy - who can afford it - and from collecting unpaid taxes from giant corporations, banks etc that the money needed to invest in industry, the NHS, public housing etc should come, along with borrowing while money is cheap.
To summarise: I accept that some people just don't think he's 'got it', as many here do not, but I simply cannot accept that such an unrelenting right-wing/media slur campaign spanning nearly two years is not hugely responsible for the fall in Labour's ratings.
It would affect anybody's, any party's ratings negatively. That's just the power of propaganda!
Colonel_Mad
pfm Member
I didn't mention the Tories. Why do you think I meant them?
Oh. It must be because you read the list and immediately the Tories sprang to your mind.
Well done for studying the list for several minutes before writing a response pointing out that 1 out of the 7 key Tory manifesto pledges this time round differs from the BNP.
Tell you what. I'll be back when Theresa does a U-turn on that one and ask your opinion again.
Colonel_Mad
pfm Member
And that is on top of enormous social budget reductions that have crippled council spending, plunged millions into poverty and are destroying social services.
Imagine where the national debt would have been without that.
Yet we keep getting told the economy is thriving and that Labour can't be trusted with the economy. It clearly isn't thriving although the Government know how to present the statistics to make it look like it is.
Tony L
Administrator
Indeed. If the Tories actually tried to appear in public in a place like Bolton they'd get the living shit kicked out of them! The security around the Manchester conference has to be seen to be believed, a real indication as to just how detested and mistrusted these people are. I remember hearing about Gidiot's appearance at MOSI when he was chancellor and how the place was closed, busloads of fake audience (members, activists etc) were wheeled in from elsewhere in the country and aranged in a triangle shape panning out from the camera position to give the false impression the place was full. The whole thing is a stage-managed charade. Fake news to the core. My real annoyance is that none of the media exposes the ruse.
PS Anyone think 30 Tories being investigated by the CPS for electoral fraud might just be the real reason for this farce election?
richardg
Admonishtrator
Neil, I voted leave and am therefore a retard. But not enough of a retard to open a link to the Daily Mail.
Tony L
Administrator
I very much hope TV debates occur without May if she is too cowardly and inarticulate to contemplate doing them. She is a truly hopeless and unconvincing speaker IMO, her one trick being to sound like a rather stuffy old school mistress giving the vacuous "don't do that because I said so" argument when reading from a script. The irony given the polls and media perception is Corbyn would almost certainly beat her in a head to head as he is honest, fairly articulate and actually believes what he says. May would come over as a total fake in comparison. Farron would run rings around her too.
richardg
Admonishtrator
That's the real reason, that along with a calculation that they may lose some votes by not turning up but not as many as they would lose if she did turn up. Hunched, haughty, does not sound sincere, annoying voice,not that likeable generally, not as quick or witty as just about everyone I remember either.
NeilR
pfm Member
You should. The comments on this article are quite entertaining.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Quite right Rich, It could have been any paper, but the Mail is a pamphlet of choice among Leavers they may not believe non Brexit supporting rags. More for anyone gullible enough to think that we are special in Trump's eyes.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...de-deal-eu-angela-merkel-brexit-a7696376.html
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
Here defense is to shriek "Labour are going to bankrupt the UK" at Corbyn during PMQT in the Commons.
I wonder how much her advisors were paid to come up with that one. Oh some of them have been resigning.
Jack
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
You seem to have a lot of time on your hands max. Anyway, it is not just my view about opposition parties being ahead in mid term it is the view of YouGov who found it is a requirement (seen over many years) to win a general election.
What you are calling a right wing slur against Corbyn is to my mind just asking difficult questions as would be the case in any walk of life where someone is being seen as not up to the job.
From day 1 he struck me as lacking leadership qualities, so I imagine many others would have seen the same thing.
It's not only in politics where people get a hard time. Take football managers like David Moyes who (more than once) has been asked directly if he going to be sacked as his team are at the bottom of the PL. He will call that disrespectful, a lot of fans will say it is fully justified.
That is the way things are; as soon as someone is seen as not being very good everyone piles in. And I won't even mention his top shadow cabinet team.
To my mind Labour's continuing low level of support is down to the quality of its leaders and the take over by the metropolitan elites. Brexit showed us all that the traditional support for Labour had changed and the issues that Brexit threw up are not being addressed by Labour and that is why support is ebbing away. Blame the media if you like, but the fact is Labour are no longer representing up to half their traditional support and seem to be remote from their concerns.
PS Try this if you are unhappy about the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/contact_us/making_a_complaint.html
But bear in mind how complex the issue of alleging bias is;
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2015/09/there-left-or-right-wing-bias-bbc-question-time
notaclue
pfm Member
Sadly, you are correct. Corbyn's is good at rhetoric about inequality, but seriously weak elsewhere. Very poor in the Commons (and his academic record is also poor, good schooling but only two Es at A-level).
As for being elite, the Mail are doing a piece on Corbyn's head of strategic communications - from a £7m home, a £38,000-a-year school and a glamorous mum who is a member of the Sloane Club http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434246/It-s-Corbyn-s-new-election-guru.html#ixzz4eyEOyBYe
Labour needed Burnham or Cooper.
But it says a lot about May that she's not confident enough to take on Corbyn head-to-head.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Hard questions? You mean like why Corbyn danced a merry jig on his way to the cenotaph?
http://evolvepolitics.iubc3wu.netdn...ploads/2016/11/The-Sn-Corbyn-Dancing-Lies.png
Complain you say?
http://evolvepolitics.com/with-no-s...s-will-continue-publishing-lies-about-corbyn/
I'm all for scrutiny - frankly, I wish the BBC would scrutinise the f*ck out of Saint Theresa - but what Corbyn has had to put up with goes well beyond legitimate criticism and doesn't bode well for democracy in this country.