Thank you.
Your vitrioilc trademark nastiness has answered the very question why people bought the item in the first place.
What's all the aggression about in the audio room?
- Thread starter Cereal Killer
- Start date
Thank you.
Your vitrioilc trademark nastiness has answered the very question why people bought the item in the first place.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
I have heard nice LP12s and not-so-nice ones.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
FWIW, what I recall of the LP12 is that when it came out, it was genuinely revelatory and did stuff which other turntables didn't do (tunefulness, rhythm, timing). It deserved its cult status, then.
Over the years, Linn brought out various 'improvements'. Some worked, some, er, didn't.
IME, the LP12 is now a parody of itself and no longer worth serious consideration.
But that doesn't mean that all LP12s are dreadful, or all purchasers were conned.
Sweeping generalisations like that do diminish the thread, this forum and, most of all, the poster. We're seeing more of them these days, it seems to me. So, I agree with the OP.
I came here from the Wigwam, because I couldn't stand the prevailing attitude over there and the moderators didn't seem to care. It has its own ethos, I guess, and it's not for me so I left them to it. No problem with that, other internet forums are available, etc, etc...
This place seemed a lot more considered, and posters seemed rather more willing to acknowledge another's POV, even if it wasn't agreed with. Arguments were, by and large, respectful, reasonable and conducted without rancour.
I don't participate in an intenet forum so that I can agree with everybody, or have everybody agree with me. I like a good argument. But there are some who, for whatever reason, can't argue without provoking a row.
That demeans them, not their targets, but they don't seem to realise this.
It's a shame. It risks PFM becoming, like Hifi Wigwam, a refuge for the lowest common denominator.
Over the years, Linn brought out various 'improvements'. Some worked, some, er, didn't.
IME, the LP12 is now a parody of itself and no longer worth serious consideration.
But that doesn't mean that all LP12s are dreadful, or all purchasers were conned.
Sweeping generalisations like that do diminish the thread, this forum and, most of all, the poster. We're seeing more of them these days, it seems to me. So, I agree with the OP.
I came here from the Wigwam, because I couldn't stand the prevailing attitude over there and the moderators didn't seem to care. It has its own ethos, I guess, and it's not for me so I left them to it. No problem with that, other internet forums are available, etc, etc...
This place seemed a lot more considered, and posters seemed rather more willing to acknowledge another's POV, even if it wasn't agreed with. Arguments were, by and large, respectful, reasonable and conducted without rancour.
I don't participate in an intenet forum so that I can agree with everybody, or have everybody agree with me. I like a good argument. But there are some who, for whatever reason, can't argue without provoking a row.
That demeans them, not their targets, but they don't seem to realise this.
It's a shame. It risks PFM becoming, like Hifi Wigwam, a refuge for the lowest common denominator.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Not all points of view are equally valid.
(Though in the context of hifi, the 'wrongness' of another's point of view certainly does not merit, let alone justify. all the huffing, puffing, and hair-pulling that goes on).
cooky1257
pfm Member
Anyone understand this?
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Have you trademarked your nastiness?
Greg
2t5b
Nope.
MVV
pfm Member
I think it is still a very good place. There is a bit of re-balancing going on at the moment, with some long standing hi-fi myths getting de-bunked and a bit of a rearguard action taking place. I am just an enthusiast and have learned a lot from all the videos and bits of research posted by what I prefer to call the techies. Then there are the DIY/Cottage industry people like misterc6 who not only makes great kit but knows his niche better than almost anyone. Finally there is so much experience here and it is so useful if you are on a budget, people know about stuff like Onix and Alberry. I'm in the process of building the best system I can for under a grand and there is no better place to help me do it.
cooky1257
pfm Member
Already taken by Tory Party
Evil Emperor
Taller Than Stalin
Hi there,
I'm mostly out of this forum now because of the aggression on both sides. The aggression on both sides makes me more aggressive in my posts. Since I've stopped coming here and spent the time I spent on forums listening to music again, my mood has brightened.
I dislike the foo aspects of audio, but I realised that my dislike of that is down to spending time and money on things that I now feel I was suckered into buying. I had an epiphany about this a few years ago. As a result, I became a web zealot, angered and angry at those who didn't share my damascene conversion.
However, I also made a discovery. The more I shouted about how wrong everyone was, the less I listened to my music. So I stopped shouting and started listening. It's more fun.
I've now come to some equanimity. Those who play around with what I consider 'foo' are simply fellow travellers; I don't follow the path they take, but I respect they are on a path. Trying to force people to experience the same epiphany I did is infuriating on both sides. If someone never makes the same jump I did, but still enjoys what they get from their hi-fi, that's better than someone being forced into something that doesn't suit them.
That's it. I'm done.
I'm mostly out of this forum now because of the aggression on both sides. The aggression on both sides makes me more aggressive in my posts. Since I've stopped coming here and spent the time I spent on forums listening to music again, my mood has brightened.
I dislike the foo aspects of audio, but I realised that my dislike of that is down to spending time and money on things that I now feel I was suckered into buying. I had an epiphany about this a few years ago. As a result, I became a web zealot, angered and angry at those who didn't share my damascene conversion.
However, I also made a discovery. The more I shouted about how wrong everyone was, the less I listened to my music. So I stopped shouting and started listening. It's more fun.
I've now come to some equanimity. Those who play around with what I consider 'foo' are simply fellow travellers; I don't follow the path they take, but I respect they are on a path. Trying to force people to experience the same epiphany I did is infuriating on both sides. If someone never makes the same jump I did, but still enjoys what they get from their hi-fi, that's better than someone being forced into something that doesn't suit them.
That's it. I'm done.
If Cooky had bothered to read the thread rather than adopt his usual default mode of keyboard warrior personal abuse he might have noted that my posts have had nothing, whatsoever, to do with the LP12 or any other, particular, hifi component.
I was simply wading through this thread trying to learn something and noted people banging on about sound as they did, soporifically, on the Harbeth thread as though such is ,actually, the parameter of consideration when purchasing an audio component!
As a relative newbie to this hobby I now realise that as a result of the internet, and forums such as pfm, that may be a consideration now but I doubt that it was always an option in the past.
Had I bought a turntable in the past I would have checked out the dealers and I have no doubt I would have bought an LP12 because the magazines and dealers told me to.
There was no vintage section then. After all, they didn’t pay for any advertising did they?
Whilst all my friends go to concerts and love music (Ryan Adams, last night at Sheffield ) I am the only one who has shown any interest in the components that play the stuff so whose advice would I have asked? The dealer!
What I did was I joined the forums and again anyone who has read my posts, which makes cooky’s comments so vilely despicable as he has, will note that I have posted as to the genuine kindness of pfm members and other forum members who have invited me into their homes and whilst in the very nature of this subject you are hardly capable of being able of discussing it without commenting on what you have heard it is not my style to comment on anyone’s particular system that I have heard other than to, on occasion, on these pages compliment such systems.
Snide comments about being invited into people’s homes and not appreciating their gear just serve to emphasise the nastiness of such post.
Ironically, it was as a result of being invited into a pfm member’s home that I first got the chance to compare the usual suspects of turntables which I would never have been able to do before pfm as I would never have had the opportunity of meeting such person.
Cooky, whilst I don’t expect to meet you at the music whether it’s Ryan or anyone else, try to be more than half a man, for once, and keep to the subject of the thread.
I was simply wading through this thread trying to learn something and noted people banging on about sound as they did, soporifically, on the Harbeth thread as though such is ,actually, the parameter of consideration when purchasing an audio component!
As a relative newbie to this hobby I now realise that as a result of the internet, and forums such as pfm, that may be a consideration now but I doubt that it was always an option in the past.
Had I bought a turntable in the past I would have checked out the dealers and I have no doubt I would have bought an LP12 because the magazines and dealers told me to.
There was no vintage section then. After all, they didn’t pay for any advertising did they?
Whilst all my friends go to concerts and love music (Ryan Adams, last night at Sheffield ) I am the only one who has shown any interest in the components that play the stuff so whose advice would I have asked? The dealer!
What I did was I joined the forums and again anyone who has read my posts, which makes cooky’s comments so vilely despicable as he has, will note that I have posted as to the genuine kindness of pfm members and other forum members who have invited me into their homes and whilst in the very nature of this subject you are hardly capable of being able of discussing it without commenting on what you have heard it is not my style to comment on anyone’s particular system that I have heard other than to, on occasion, on these pages compliment such systems.
Snide comments about being invited into people’s homes and not appreciating their gear just serve to emphasise the nastiness of such post.
Ironically, it was as a result of being invited into a pfm member’s home that I first got the chance to compare the usual suspects of turntables which I would never have been able to do before pfm as I would never have had the opportunity of meeting such person.
Cooky, whilst I don’t expect to meet you at the music whether it’s Ryan or anyone else, try to be more than half a man, for once, and keep to the subject of the thread.
No, you made a personal attack.
I kept to the thread.
You ought to try it sometime.
I am not the first nor will I be the last to comment on the peer and dealer pressure that was exerted on people before the advent of the internet.
I am not the first to call it a con.
Those outraged are usually those who were conned and sold their deck on often for decks made years before which they now use in preference.
Why don't you two keep your spat private and use the private message section?
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Just as an aside:
Let's say you bought an LP12 and you come to believe you were conned. What do you do?
Do you sell it, and buy something else? If so, you just effectively conned the person you sold it to. Are you comfortable with that?
Or, do you put it in that cupboard marked 'lesson learned' and write it off to experience?
I doubt anybody would say they'd do the latter. So let's not get too hung up on the view from that moral high horse, eh, chaps?
Let's say you bought an LP12 and you come to believe you were conned. What do you do?
Do you sell it, and buy something else? If so, you just effectively conned the person you sold it to. Are you comfortable with that?
Or, do you put it in that cupboard marked 'lesson learned' and write it off to experience?
I doubt anybody would say they'd do the latter. So let's not get too hung up on the view from that moral high horse, eh, chaps?
darrylfunk
Banned
yet again we get a load of moaners who in the face of opposing views and a more finely argued point of view retort to the 'we are being bullied' position....
would any of you so called put upon victims of bullying care to start a list outing the nasty types who you disagree with then you can be the bullies....make some room for your views by throwing some toys out of your prams....
name names or man up.....
my old nan used to say - sticks and stones may break your bones but names can never hurt you.
oh and she said the lp12 was over rated......
would any of you so called put upon victims of bullying care to start a list outing the nasty types who you disagree with then you can be the bullies....make some room for your views by throwing some toys out of your prams....
name names or man up.....
my old nan used to say - sticks and stones may break your bones but names can never hurt you.
oh and she said the lp12 was over rated......