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vinyl: where do you get the best bang per buck?

I'd be a tiny bit wary of all the 'whest' stuff. Not because it is poor, no doubt it is excellent. But the SME 20 is a touch on the 'analytic' side of life. Unless you want a hyper-analytic sound you might be wise to think of a somewhat more 'romantic' phonostage.That's why a Koetsu works so well with the SME, it adds a bit of 'humanity' to what could become a bit sterile. Still, your ears........
 
paskinn said:
I'd be a tiny bit wary of all the 'whest' stuff. Not because it is poor, no doubt it is excellent. But the SME 20 is a touch on the 'analytic' side of life. Unless you want a hyper-analytic sound you might be wise to think of a somewhat more 'romantic' phonostage.That's why a Koetsu works so well with the SME, it adds a bit of 'humanity' to what could become a bit sterile. Still, your ears........
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Thanks. Im aware that the whest is in second hand superline territory too and i would assume a natural synergy with the rest of my system. What would you consider "romantic" phono stages??

Cheers

Andy
 
Just a personal whinge.

I've never liked the term ''phono stage''. It detracts and denies the purpose of the item.

I prefer " An amplifier for record players " - or similar.

For some reason, people seem happy to pay huge sums for amplifiers for audio, but are happy with cheap solutions for their record player.

I don't count the original poster in this camp - he has a £600 dynavector 'amplifier for his record player'.

However, going from retail<distributor<manufacturer - £600 is going to translate to about £100 in parts. I'd look at phono stages as an option if I had a big budget and a very high end turntable.

I resent (personally) blowing huge chunks on carts - simply because they ''wear out''. Phono stages, record players, tonearms - dont. If money isn't an option I'd change my buying criteria and spend £3000 every 2 years on a new cartridge, but until then , no bloody way.
 
bottleneck said:
I don't count the original poster in this camp - he has a £600 dynavector 'amplifier for his record player'.

However, going from retail<distributor<manufacturer - £600 is going to translate to about £100 in parts.
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Actually it's a lot less than that. But I don't think the cost of its bits bear any relation to its performance relative to more expensive phono amps.
 
James said:
Actually it's a lot less than that. But I don't think the cost of its bits bear any relation to its performance relative to more expensive phono amps.
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Hmmm thats interesting. So a £3k amp would have about £500 worth of components. I used to be once an electrinic engineer so could easily enough sder and screw stuff together. Now and then i look at the k&k website but the customs charges put me off....
 
Not on your original list of choices, but I'd go for d) proper setup.

The best turntable in the world (whatever that is) poorly setup will sound worse than a cheap turntable setup optimally. Within reason (i.e. that plastic Alba job may never be capable of running optimally) - but I'm thinking of things like entry Regas, Linn Basiks and the like.
 
I think ive done the best i can and in fact i was very much thinking that a few hundred to a dealer to check my set up would be worthwhile. No SME dealer for many hours though - thats life in the wild highlands of scotland for you....
 
As far as carts go, law of diminishing returns definitely applies. I moved up from a £500 AT cart to a £1k Lyra (talking 15 years back) and whist it was a significant improvement there is no way it could be called twice as good. The Audio Technica clearly did 95% of what the Lyra could but that last 5% was the difference between the feeling of listening to a recording and a real sense of a person playing an instrument, (with suitable recordings of course). That said, I think amps have an even steeper law of diminishing returns curve than carts. Especially when talking about non power amps. Low level amps like phono stages area all about low noise electronics, there is a certain level of component quality required to achieve decent s/n with MC inputs but once your past that the extra money is pretty much wasted IMO. I've heard plenty of top end vinyl front end systems in my time, (I come from an era that pre-dates CD), and I can't say with hand on heart that any of them were leaps and bounds better than my Xerxes/SME IV/Lyra Clavis/Michel ISO + Hera combo. Most were different, not better overall.
 
paskinn etal,

a different point of view here, not a rebuttal...i had a SME20/DV XV1-s/whest .20 and didn't find it analytical. but then again, i didn't find the SME analytical compared to an LP12. the whest replaced an exposure 13, and i found the whest had much better resolution and clarity than the expo. the music also flowed much better via the whest too.

when i upgraded my pre to a crimson 710, i found the phono in the crimson as good as the whest, so i sold the whest, but if i were in the market for a phono pre, whest would be on the short list.
 
You could look at phonostages like ARC PH5 or RCM Audio Prelude for something much higher resolution than your current phono and also romantic.
 
MVV said:
FWIW. I'm with the TT,arm, cart crew. Had LP12, Ekos, Akiva into TE microgrove plus into NAP 52 and upgraded to WTA GTA, Ortofon Cadenza Blue into 32.5 with K boards.
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I thoroughly agree with this. I have also upgraded to a WTA. I'ld rather listen to a WTA into a budget 80's Rotel than certain other decks into any amps money can buy. It's the difference between revealing and tuneful. Tuneful should be a much higher priority than revealing. Spend your money on the motor unit. 0.08% wow isn't good enough. Get a deck in the 0.04% - 0.02% range or better and you will stop worrying about upgrading, and start worrying about how many times you will be able to listen to Beethoven's piano sonatas before you die.

That said, my current cartridge cost me 230 quid and my gramophone amp cost me nearly two grand.
 
YNWOAN said:
Turntable, then arm, then cartridge
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How significant is tonearm cable in the scheme of things and for that matter internal wiring?

I've been pondering what next - a cable for my Ittok or a Trampolin.
 
Andy1912 said:
Hmmm thats interesting. So a £3k amp would have about £500 worth of components. I used to be once an electrinic engineer so could easily enough sder and screw stuff together. Now and then i look at the k&k website but the customs charges put me off....
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I firmly believe this to be the case, and the more DIY stuff I've done, the more apparent it's been.

The problem with DIY is whether the actual design is as good as a production model (sometimes worse , sometimes better), and residual values when you sell.

Taking loudspeakers as an example, it's always an eye opener to take a £3k loudspeaker and google the drive unit prices at Maddison. Typically they are about £25 each.
 
Turntable, power supply, arm, cart, phono-stage.

One key thing is, is arm good enough for cartridge? so tracking is all good.
 
ZK said:
How significant is tonearm cable in the scheme of things and for that matter internal wiring?

I've been pondering what next - a cable for my Ittok or a Trampolin.
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If there's no hiss, and the specs say below 100pf a foot for capacitance there's little point doing anything with the cables, good cable need not be expensive.
 
From extensively ABing the Trampolin, I discovered it reproduced many things with a non-metronome or non-drum-machine-like sense of timing. Drum machines are still drum machines, however live drummers and other instruments are played with syncopation and phrasing.

That said, getting a T-Kable off the back of my Akito let more of what the LP12 was doing out of the box.
 
Warren Day said:
...live drummers and other instruments are played with syncopation and phrasing.
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Linnspeak for wow IMO. Compare it to CD, SACD, low-wow belt drive decks (Avid, Amadeus etc.), quartz direct drives, (Technics etc.) and good idlers, and Sondek tends to be the odd one out when it comes to 'phrasing', as well as tune and measured wow.

Music starts from a low wow motor unit.
 
TT / Arm the cartridge yes. But having bought/played with and heard an awful lot of stuff ultimately I'd say, each component is as important as the next and the one before.
 
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