Van attack at Finsbury park mosque.

[merlin]

We'll agree that you need to differentiate between mentally ill individuals influenced by media sources and actual operatives trained to carry out atrocities on behalf of a paramilitary organisation.

Once that starts to happen with Islam we can think of applying it to White supremacists.

We need to tighten the regulation of all media sources sadly, a challenging and (from an idealistic POV) a repugnant task. We can start however with the likes of the tabloid press. At the moment, the IPSO code is far too loose to be considered fit for purpose IMO - particularly when it comes to political commentary.

 

[davidsrsb]

I think you need to legislate a lot more carefully than that. The BNP/EDL have a legitimate POV, that immigration should be lowered, and a concern about the amount of Muslims in the UK. I don't agree with them, but they are hardly lunatics unlike the Islamist creeps.

So they have a right to tell me that I (White British) am the "wrong" religion then?

 

[TheDecameron]

I think you need to legislate a lot more carefully than that. The BNP/EDL have a legitimate POV, that immigration should be lowered, and a concern about the amount of Muslims in the UK. I don't agree with them, but they are hardly lunatics unlike the Islamist creeps.

What is a legitimate concern about the number of any one religion in the U.K?

 

[chiily]

I think you need to legislate a lot more carefully than that. The BNP/EDL have a legitimate POV, that immigration should be lowered, and a concern about the amount of Muslims in the UK. I don't agree with them, but they are hardly lunatics unlike the Islamist creeps.

The BNP/EDL are right up there as lunatics and brutal. Worryingly their radicalisation is in every right-wing mainstream publication. Radicalism sells, obviously.

This country is built on immigrants; people just need to get over it.

 

[Mikeandvan]

So they have a right to tell me that I (White British) am the "wrong" religion then?

I don't think they care what religion you follow David. The EDL do appeal to racist thugs, but some of their concerns should be listened to. You have to respect an indigenous populations concern when they see themselves as being over ran by immigrants from quite a different culture. And that is further exaggerated by Multiculturalism, which says we shouldn't then expect those immigrants to respect our modern European values.

 

[droodzilla]

I don't think they care what religion you follow David. The EDL do appeal to racist thugs, but some of their concerns should be listened to. You have to respect an indigenous populations concern when they see themselves as being over ran by immigrants from quite a different culture. And that is further exaggerated by Multiculturalism, which says we shouldn't then expect those immigrants to respect our modern European values.

The point is many of them *are* racist thugs. They're *not* raising concerns about immigration in a reasoned fashion (nothing wrong with that). They're seething with hatred and spoiling for a fight.

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=6667d164e3ddca2c12f2a0928a16ef37&oe=59D4F153

 

[marvin1882]

I think you need to legislate a lot more carefully than that. The BNP/EDL have a legitimate POV, that immigration should be lowered, and a concern about the amount of Muslims in the UK. I don't agree with them, but they are hardly lunatics unlike the Islamist creeps.

The opinion that immigration should be lowered is not of itself racist. But a great many of the individuals who support these far right parties are racist. They deal in stereotypes (often fed to them by the MSM) and simplistic generalisations.

We have got to realise that it is the corrupt, warmongering foreign policy of our Neocon/Zionist controlled governments which has led to the destruction and depopulation of much of the Middle East region, which in turn has led to the mass migration of peoples from the Middle East into Europe.

None of this needed to happen to begin with. For whatever perverse reason, this psychopathic elite (the only way I can describe them) created the conditions for all of this to happen in the first place.

 

[merlin]

You have to respect an indigenous populations concern when they see themselves as being over ran by immigrants from quite a different culture.

We do. That's why we have a democracy. We respect it for what it's worth - sweet FA and not representative of the indigenous immigrants (very few of us are not descended from immigrants.)

 

[Stunsworth]

You have to respect an indigenous populations concern when they see themselves as being over ran by immigrants from quite a different culture

That's the problem in a nutshell, it's a _perception_ not the reality. Just over 4% of the UK population is Muslim, that's not 'being over ran', only an idiot would think that it is.

 

[Guest432]

The EDL or BNP should never ever ever be listened to.

They do not have a legitimate POV, they do not care less about immigration their issue is with darkies being here, regardless of whether they came here or were born here.

 

[Seanm]

I don't think they care what religion you follow David. The EDL do appeal to racist thugs, but some of their concerns should be listened to. You have to respect an indigenous populations concern when they see themselves as being over ran by immigrants from quite a different culture. And that is further exaggerated by Multiculturalism, which says we shouldn't then expect those immigrants to respect our modern European values.

Ah good, Mike's here to condemn the attack, and reconsider his call for people to take matters into their own hands with regard to the "Islamist threat."

Oh, wait, he's blaming immigrants and multiculturalism.

A wonderful expression of Enlightenment values.

 

[dweezil]

The EDL or BNP should never ever ever be listened to.

They do not have a legitimate POV, they do not care less about immigration their issue is with darkies being here, regardless of whether they came here or were born here.

And what do we think they'd be doing if we didn't have a decent police force and you could pick up a Kalashnikov on a street corner for £70?

 

[maxflinn]

It has to be said that there are some young British Sunni Muslims who proudly state that Islamic Sharia law will be the law in Britain eventually, as Islam 'takes over the world'.

This doesn't exactly help things and while it doesn't legitimise the views of the likes of the EDL and Britain First, the members of these groups think it does, and it ain't easy to convince them otherwise when they can quote such people.

This is a problem.

 

[richardg]

And what do we think they'd be doing if we didn't have a decent police force and you could pick up a Kalashnikov on a street corner for £70?

Do we have a decent police force? Even if we did, there is no police force that can predict nutters hiring vans and driving into people.

So I suspect they just like braying on about it. If they were proper thugs they'd be killing loads of people by now.

 

[Tony L]

I think you need to legislate a lot more carefully than that. The BNP/EDL have a legitimate POV, that immigration should be lowered, and a concern about the amount of Muslims in the UK. I don't agree with them, but they are hardly lunatics unlike the Islamist creeps.

I guess living in nice affluent multicultural Brighton youhave never had the "pleasure" of a train-load of this knuckle-dragging racist shit descending on your town with the sole intent of terrorising the local Asian/Muslim population, smashing their shops up and generally trying to undo decades of community building and social cohesion. Trust me, I know exactly what this shit is, and it is clear from your post you do not.

 

[merlin]

It has to be said that there are some young British Sunni Muslims who proudly state that Islamic Sharia law will be the law in Britain eventually, as Islam 'takes over the world'.

This doesn't exactly help things and while it doesn't legitimise the views of the likes of the EDL and Britain First, the members of these groups think it does, and it ain't easy to convince them otherwise when they can quote such people.

This is a problem.

Yet all religions breed extremists and Islam just happens to be the most popular.

If you ban religion you ban freedom of thought. The idealist in me hopes that religions will one day police themselves and their own.

Most extremists, I would imagine, would exhibit personality disorders and/or potentially psycho neurological issues when examined by open minded professionals.

Mental health is the root of many of these issues and yet HM government continues to cut funding for those seeking to treat or aid those afflicted in society.

M&M's Media and minds. A potentially dangerous combination in any society without the correct guidance.

 

[chiily]

That's the problem in a nutshell, it's a _perception_ not the reality. Just over 4% of the UK population is Muslim, that's not 'being over ran', only an idiot would think that it is.

Well said.

Case in point, Ebbw Vale voted out of the EU. Why? Because of too much immigration, from interviews with locals. Ebbw Vale has the lowest level of immigration in the country. It is a perception that we are over run, a perception that EDL et al whip up.

 

[Mikeandvan]

Sadly, I am not at all surprised by this attack. The wave of Islamophobia which is currently sweeping the country is very worrying. You Tube is now awash with anti-Islam, anti-Muslim hate channels. The Alt-right movement would appear to be seriously funded! Much of the MSM also has an Islamophobic agenda in the way that it spins and presents stories. People are quite rightly angered and outraged at the recent Wahhabi terror attacks. But their fears and anger are being ruthlessly exploited by those who wish to create further division. Too many now associate the actions of Wahhabi extremists with Muslims/Islam as a whole. The masses are being engineered to hate, blame and scapegoat in a most simplistic, unthinking and reactionary fashion. Worrying times.

Sorry but that's rubbish. I see no 'wave of Islamophobia sweeping the country'. But I see lots of liberal columnists warning of it, pure fear of the masses.

 

[Mikeandvan]

We'll agree that you need to differentiate between mentally ill individuals influenced by media sources and actual operatives trained to carry out atrocities on behalf of a paramilitary organisation.

Once that starts to happen with Islam we can think of applying it to White supremacists.

We need to tighten the regulation of all media sources sadly, a challenging and (from an idealistic POV) a repugnant task. We can start however with the likes of the tabloid press. At the moment, the IPSO code is far too loose to be considered fit for purpose IMO - particularly when it comes to political commentary.

Nope, bad idea, we need more free speech, not less. The tabloid press don't need to be muzzled either, how on earth can you legislate for political view points? This is just more fear of the lumpen proles, they won't all go nuts, just because there's a slightly jingoistic headline in the DM or The Sun.

 

[Mikeandvan]

That's the problem in a nutshell, it's a _perception_ not the reality. Just over 4% of the UK population is Muslim, that's not 'being over ran', only an idiot would think that it is.

Only 4%, I'll take your word for it, but in the areas where they are concentrated, that will feel more like 54%.