Van attack at Finsbury park mosque.
- Thread starter Philim
- Start date
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes, I also seem to remember that the guy who murdered Jo Cox was a 'loner' with mental health issues. In other words, his actions were his alone and for reasons we understand and there's no need to look for any wider causes or responsibilities.
Whereas similar actions by Muslims quickly become part of a wider conspiracy and we ask questions about whole communities and Islam as a whole...'why aren't Imams doing more?' etc
I really hope that some good can come from recent tragic events, some good that means we can deal with our problems together
Whereas similar actions by Muslims quickly become part of a wider conspiracy and we ask questions about whole communities and Islam as a whole...'why aren't Imams doing more?' etc
I really hope that some good can come from recent tragic events, some good that means we can deal with our problems together
Tony L
Administrator
The sad thing is it is so easy to do. Those arguing against neoliberalism/Zionism frequently make such ridiculous and incoherent arguments that in many ways they just come across as a very slightly different types of "Tommy Robbinson". I got flack from Paul R for publishing a link to some idiotic YouTube bullshit upthread, and he has a point. It is 14 minutes and my life, assuming I live to at least 150 as I intend, is too short to waste that amount of time on unfounded bullshit conspiracy theory.
To be honest I get sick to death with the whole anti-Zionist thing as it is so simplistic, so ill-thought out, so dumb. Israel may be imperfect but to be honest it is the only place in the whole area I'd be prepared to even visit let alone live! It is a proper democracy surrounded by highly oppressive dictatorships/monachies etc that I have very little respect for. I do not support its actions beyond its internationally agreed borders, but it certainly has a right to defend itself and with as much force as is required.
Alvarado
pfm Member
Couple of thoughts on this (pardon me if they've already been covered, I've only read the last couple of pages of the thread).
1. What's happened to the two other geezers apparently in the van? Where's the usual coverage/lockdown/obsession with manhunts/ramping up of national security alerts until the other two twats are detained?
2. I am hugely impressed that the attacker, apparently in good physical health, was handed over to the police. For this man not to have had seven shades of shit kicked out of him by the onlooking mob (the same group of people he'd moments before tried to murder in cold blood) was really quite a triumph of humanity. Kudos not just to the Imam/his helpers who appear to have persuaded the group that an immediate violent response was not appropriate. I avoid violence and most likely I wouldn't have been involved in a violent response (unless a loved one of mine had been hurt) but I might well have looked the other way
3. There doesn't seem to be any specific news but I assume that the person who died was the one who was apparently being treated/having a cardiac arrest when the van drove into the group? These idiots caused carnage, injury, hurt, stoked up hatred, increased the likelihood of copycat attacks etc, but perhaps did not cause any fatalities, which if true is something to be thankful for.
1. What's happened to the two other geezers apparently in the van? Where's the usual coverage/lockdown/obsession with manhunts/ramping up of national security alerts until the other two twats are detained?
2. I am hugely impressed that the attacker, apparently in good physical health, was handed over to the police. For this man not to have had seven shades of shit kicked out of him by the onlooking mob (the same group of people he'd moments before tried to murder in cold blood) was really quite a triumph of humanity. Kudos not just to the Imam/his helpers who appear to have persuaded the group that an immediate violent response was not appropriate. I avoid violence and most likely I wouldn't have been involved in a violent response (unless a loved one of mine had been hurt) but I might well have looked the other way
3. There doesn't seem to be any specific news but I assume that the person who died was the one who was apparently being treated/having a cardiac arrest when the van drove into the group? These idiots caused carnage, injury, hurt, stoked up hatred, increased the likelihood of copycat attacks etc, but perhaps did not cause any fatalities, which if true is something to be thankful for.
merlin
Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.
To be fair I tend to agree with you. If Israel were to go back to it's internationally agreed borders and stop interfering overseas we would see a lot less "anti Zionism" and the world would be a far more relaxed place.
As for other ME regimes, any form of government seems to be flawed but the flaws are with the human beings rather than the systems in many cases. Single Party states, if they were run by true socialists, would seem to offer the potential for great strides. It's just that the human element is failing the system.
Maybe in time, AI can replace politicians and be programmed with true socialist ideals. Perhaps the current PM is an early (and clearly flawed) prototype?
Finally I really would recommend Jordan as a place to visit. Petra should be seen by everyone before it's finally lost to the world IMO.
Alvarado
pfm Member
OK thanks for that. On the radio on Sun night they were reporting two other attackers had fled. The story was breaking at the time so may have been a misunderstanding.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
A little glimpse of your psychopathy showing there.
merlin
Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.
I take your point and agree - but as I've mentioned previously, more people are reaching "breaking point" because of cuts to mental health care and to government departments in general.
These cuts have costs. One has to wonder whether government factors those in when making the cuts? I would imagine that they do a simple risk assessment with little concern for the average citizen's well being.
Lee T
pfm Member
This attack is a little different to the London Bridge attack, the difference being, the attacker left the van, requested to be killed & was not wielding a knife, it's quite different so has to be treated as such.
Luckily we will never know how the onlooking crowd would have reacted if the guy was stabbing innocent Muslims with a 12 inch blade
Each incident should be dealt with individually, if the police believe the perpetrators are part of a bigger ring then they need to act on this, intelligence will tell them once they know the individual, obviously, in this instance he was not part of intelligence regarding the ongoing terrorist threat in the UK at present.
If there were other individuals involved I imagine the police are attempting to gain this information from the person they have in custody, they had no such people to question in other attacks so rely on intelligence.
Lee T
pfm Member
Doubt you can diagnose psychopathy from a single post
Paul is not psychopathic, trust me.
If he were you would probably be friends, you would not have a clue.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Seanm
pfm Member
Gassor I'm not accusing you of racism. But for years the Labour right has been spinning a series of assumptions and impressions into a very toxic narrative about the need to "address legitimate concerns" about immigration as a precondition of winning power. It helped shift the whole political ground to the right, it showed a certain contempt for the working class, and the election proved that there was absolutely no need to indulge it (as you certainly did). So, no offence intended, but if you want to go back to this line of reasoning you need a proper argument and proper evidence.
Seanm
pfm Member
This is an interesting point that isn't getting much attention. The right are getting more extreme and nutty as their numbers dwindle and masochism is at least as much a part of their mindset as sadism. You could see it in those old guys on the leaders' Question Time demanding nuclear war. I saw it on Friday when a lone EDL type walked into the crowd of protestors with arms in the air saying something about Corbyn (the actual message: "Kill me!") And you can see it here with Paul R and Mikeandvan: why bring their alt-right stuff to a forum like this if not to receive abuse? We should be careful not to indulge any of them.
Lee T
pfm Member
To me, propaganda posts such as this just fuel the fire.
A terrorist is someone who causes violence against the public for political gain, the IRA were terrorists for example.
This person is not a terrorist, his actions were quite clearly carried out as some form of twisted revenge against an innocent Muslim community, I suppose you have to ask if any of the recent attacks are terrorism as they were carried out for reasons of a twisted version of faith, radicalized individuals who have no interest in political gain, just a smooth ride to heaven to meet their god.
merlin
Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.
So Trump is a Terrorist. May is a terrorist but a Muslim or Christian extremist is not because he/she is motivated by religion and they are doing what their god tells them they should?
I sometimes wonder if you think at all.
maxflinn
pfm Member
This does seem to be the most widely used definition.
I would broaden it to include states, so..
And by the same token so were the UK governments of the time.
The US, Israel, France, UK, Russia....all terror-states.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Merlin, my post was an allusion to this:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/16/12/3559398900000578-0-image-a-1_1466076152222.jpg
Maybe Osborne was radicalised by far-right hate-preacher Nigel Farage?
droodzilla
pfm Member
Another far-right f*cker from the Henry Jackson Society on The Daily Politics. Trying to excuse Douglas Murray's previous comments apparently.