Time to bring Cook back as captain?

[avole]

England cannot stand either not scoring. Cook needs to know he still has a place, and Root needs to mature.

Better to have a strong captain (remember Brearley) who may not get that many runs and a talented batsman not being strangled by responsibility than a captain learning on the job at the expense of his ability.

By the way, I forecast a whitewash - England need genuine quicks in Oz, not swing or seam bowlers chuntering up and down at what, at least to Australian batsman, seems medium pace. That said, without scoring 450+ in the first innings, they're always going to lose.

 

[wacko]

It is partly home advantage with very different conditions. Partly loss of Ben Stokes. Partly unsettled top order batsmen. Root is only 27 next week: IMO let him grow into the job and lead from the front as Australia have done with Steve Smith.

 

[avole]

Idon't agree. Steve Smith is an exceptional player - remember he came in as a leggie/batsman - and has easily had the potential. Root is a good, if not great as yet, batsman. I've always thought it was a shame to saddle him with such responsibility. Michael Vaughan, arguably the best English captain in decades, suffered with the bat the moment he was given the responsibility, yet he made up for it by inspiring his team. Root isn't close to being there yet, they can't afford him to fail, as he has in this series.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Unless Root really doesn`t want to be captain demoting him is unlikely to make him bat better and Cook was pretty much burned out as captain and is not likely to improve his form with the added work load - I agree Root is too young for the job but alternatives were not obvious - and still aren`t.

 

[peter bj]

There is no real alternative to Root but I am afraid it will ruin his form , Alistair Cook found it hard when he kept loosing by no real fault of his own , the team kept on the self distruct button .
I am not sure how you stop batsmen making the same errors again and again ! especially as they will have been told not to do it

 

[Rockmeister]

I've not heard the broadcasts, but I suspect Uncle Geoff isn't over there...thank the lord. The scalding they'd be getting would burn a few ears.
I agree it's simply about pace vs swing, but with this, exact present team, I'm unconvinced that we'd have won here unless it was overcast and breezy every day.
We must breed more genuine pace. It's always been near unplayable on the harder pitches...50 years on and we still haven't learnt. If the fastmen were here, the top order batsmen would be in the nets against them week in week out. It all flows from there I think.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Sir Geo is on the commentary team and predictably unimpressed, however he doesn`t offer any real solution - I think Cook, Anderson and Broad are past their best and the replacements only fire sporadically. I also suspect that Root may not be getting the fullest backing from his senior bowlers.

 

[wacko]

Steve was 26 when he became captain. He is the No1 batsman in the world today but he was even dropped from the team a while back. Now he does have an English mother...

 

[Eyebroughty]

Watched a really interesting interview between Mike Atherton and Mike Brearley, when asked about test cricket Brearley said unless they looked at the trend towards T20 an T50 cricket and tried to ensure there was enough help and training given to test matches and test players he could see in 10 to 20 years time there being no test matches anywhere as the style of play in T20 and T50 cricket was not helping make players able to withstand the requirements of a test match.

Think this is exactly what England have got themselves into at the moment, a few good players but most are used to the short game and as for Joe Root he should have been left as a batsman to mature and become great, at the moment he is looking like a good country batsman not a great test batsman now he is captain.

The England selectors need to start addressing if they want a test side or a short game side. At present their short game side seems much better than their test side.

 

[clifftaylor]

Test cricket will die out - the number of people who want a game that can go on for 5 days and end in a draw is diminishing; I love it, the way it can change so dramatically at any point, the way it can seem to be wandering off so that the commentary team can talk about cakes, pigeons, busses or whatever then in the course of a couple of overs, everything changes, but I think I'm in a (shrinking) minority.

The current (England) players are a very good one-day side, but in order to be that, they've lost sight of things like long "boring" opening partnerships by Boycott or whoever - and maybe they've had to. They're fundamentally different creatures, and I don't just mean the tatoos and muscular arms, although both of those things represent, I think, where cricket is going (I'm not going to comment on Ben Stokes!). T20 and to a lesser extent T50 aren't subtle games, whereas Test cricket is, or can be - but there's less space in the modern world for subtlety.

Or maybe I'm just old!

 

[RickyC6]

What in the name of chuff is T50?

 

[canonman]

Test cricket is healthy in England, Australia, South Africa and probably NZ. I still have to enter a ballot every year for Lords and Oval matches, usually achieving around 50% success rate. Both venues massively oversubscribed most years. Just look at the crowds in the land of the crims for the Melbourne Boxing Day and Sydney New Year matches . In SA last series they had to add extra stands! In terms of crowd popularity, India and Windies are probably lost causes for tests now.

The emphasis has changed and we do have an incredibly good current T20/ T50 side. Roy, Hales, Stokes, Ali, Buttler are the best in the world right now.

As for Root, don't forget that he was no 1 in the ICC test rankings in 2015, above Smith. He's floundering right now but I wouldn't bet against a reversal. Smith struggles in England. It's horses for courses.

Avole is spot on about the need for a seriously quick bowler for the Aussie pitches. A plan was hatched in the pub a few weeks ago......oh for a Devon Malcolm now.

 

[Rodrat]

They lack discipline. To be a top class sport person you cannot go out on the p**s the night before and expect to perform well. Half of them need to be sacked.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Avole is spot on about the need for a seriously quick bowler for the Aussie pitches. A plan was hatched in the pub a few weeks ago......oh for a Devon Malcolm now.

"Devon Malcolm would run through a barn door for his captain.... he couldn`t be guaranteed to hit one though"

When he was on song he was very good and his No11 batting was a great treat.

 

[SteveS1]

By the way, I forecast a whitewash - England need genuine quicks in Oz, not swing or seam bowlers chuntering up and down at what, at least to Australian batsman, seems medium pace. That said, without scoring 450+ in the first innings, they're always going to lose.

Absolutely right. Always better to take your fastest to Oz, not necessarily your best. Bowlers who can't make much impact using the conditions are a luxury you can't afford. Conversely hostile bowlers make life difficult even if they are not that accurate.

This has been a pathetic capitulation against a team containing many players (with two or three notable exceptions) who wouldn't make it into many previous Aussie teams.

 

[stuwils]

I think we should bring in Chris Froome, his asthma should not be such a big problem that he has to overdose to win at that since cricket is a sedentary sport .

Rgds
Stuart ( token Scot in cricket thread )

 

[scottyhammer]

You could have god as captain and it wouldn't matter...the English rounders team are shite just like the footie team !

 

[PsB]

Got to admit that sending Captain Cook to Australia has a certain ring to it.

 

[avole]

You could have god as captain and it wouldn't matter...the English rounders team are shite just like the footie team !

Actually, they're not. The problme is that, until recently, the batsmen haven't been allowed to play overseas for the various T20 formats, and haven't been exposed to the type of bowling that can take wickets on unresponsive wickets - a decent quick can wreak havoc through pace alone. As to the bowling, Broad was just that but had to learn line, length and swing before being returned to the English team. It was notable that he was, in previous series, the bowler the Australians were most concerned about on their home territory.

I'd like to say something about spin, but, realistically, it's only Sydney where a spinner can rely on turn. Moeen is not a first line spinner. He should be playing as a batsman who can shore up an end with his bowling. Why the English selectors and coach didn't see this, who knows. As it is they've turned a mercurial batsman into someone who either learns to bowl better or will lose his place, which is a classic misconception by a board that can't see talent when it hits them in the face. Talking of that, I'm afraid Stokes is always going to be a liability. They should be looking at Bairstow for his batting flair. At the moment, he's looking to be the best prospect in the team, though I think Vince may just surprise in the future.

I'm not convinced about Root. Too early for captaincy, when Cook, batting failures aside, is the better tactician. Given he was sacked, I'm not surprised his form has gone to the dogs. The man has pride.

 

[stevec67]

Test cricket will die out - the number of people who want a game that can go on for 5 days and end in a draw is diminishing; I love it, the way it can change so dramatically at any point, the way it can seem to be wandering off so that the commentary team can talk about cakes, pigeons, busses or whatever then in the course of a couple of overs, everything changes, but I think I'm in a (shrinking) minority.

The current (England) players are a very good one-day side, but in order to be that, they've lost sight of things like long "boring" opening partnerships by Boycott or whoever - and maybe they've had to. They're fundamentally different creatures, and I don't just mean the tatoos and muscular arms, although both of those things represent, I think, where cricket is going (I'm not going to comment on Ben Stokes!). T20 and to a lesser extent T50 aren't subtle games, whereas Test cricket is, or can be - but there's less space in the modern world for subtlety.

Or maybe I'm just old!

I don't think that it will die out but you're right that we need another Boycott. Every time he's on he says the same thing, it falls on deaf ears. A Test lasts for 5 days. Boycott won dozens and secured a draw in hundreds by nailing the door shut and stopping everything dead. Yes, it was boring to watch, but it gave the commentary box the opportunity to talk about cakes, the rabbit in the outfield and "You will remember, of course, the last time that England were 200 for 5 and chasing a total of over 400, and succeeded." "Yes, indeed, it was at The Oval, 1974, against a very strong West Indian side, but the groundsmen had done a superb job, helped by drop of rain, and the West Indians just couldn't get the pace...you will remember of course the finest bowling performance of that game?" "Yes indeed, who could forget the magnificent 8 overs, 3 wickets for 20, of..." and so it went on as Boycott built his wall and the opposing bowlers gradually grew old and grey trying to wear him down. One day stuff is a different game, we're good at that.