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The mains thang

Just measurements using a sensitive oscilloscope and an agilent HF spectrum analyzer, and of course double-blind ABX tests. I have compared Belden medical-grade shielded power cables, some standard industrial cables that came with a Cisco router, the power cable that came with my Creek amp, and a simple 1.5 mm "lamp cord" cable. No difference in the output of the amp.

I would like to hear a credible technical explanation for why power cables would make a difference.

Excellent Julf can you point us to where this test was reported and the various results. Very interesting. Is that your analyzer or just borrowed?
What type of source and speakers were you using? What type of music?
Who did the abx bits for you and exactly how where they set up?
 
Just measurements using a sensitive oscilloscope and an agilent HF spectrum analyzer, and of course double-blind ABX tests. I have compared Belden medical-grade shielded power cables, some standard industrial cables that came with a Cisco router, the power cable that came with my Creek amp, and a simple 1.5 mm "lamp cord" cable. No difference in the output of the amp.

I would like to hear a credible technical explanation for why power cables would make a difference.
The proof is in the listening I suppose, that's all I have admitted to doing, nothing else. why it upsets people as to why some hear an improvement is odd, why does it bother you so much.

Back to Naim yet again, most of their products do not measure well under testing, I remember a review back in 2004 on a naim cd5i player, it tested quite poorly in hifi choice & hi-fi world magazines, it's measurements did not fair well against the competition & uses an old antiquated dac as they put it yet sounded the best player in the test, sometimes there is no explanation for such things as this proves, it should have sounded worse than any other player on test but reviewers had the most enjoyment with it.

Whatever it is doing adding this cable to my system I like it, not science, not intelligent over thinking on the matter, just an honest response to what I have heard in my "particular system" with this "particular cable", I don't yearn an explanation I would rather sit back & enjoy my music.
 
I don't make scientific claims but this is my practical MO.
1. Use balanced XLR connections with star quad, double shielded cable. I use Gotham GAC-4/1 but I think Mogami 2534 would be similar though I've not tried that. Neither is expensive: try for kicks!
2. Remove all the SMPSs I practically can from ring. A dedicated ring is the ideal. Put your streamer on battery power.
3. If using extensions, use ones without indicator lights or switches.
4. Clean all audio power sockets (can be surprisingly grimy) and pins before first use. (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2443492&postcount=1), use dud plastic plugs when said sockets are not in use thereafter.
5. Separate each type of cable from other types: power cables, interconnects (even if balanced) and speaker cables.

I'm not using audiophile power cables, sockets or mains treatments though.
 
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I don't make scientific claims but this is my practical MO.
1. Remove all the SMPSs I practically can from ring, quarantine the rest on X10 filters.
2. If using extensions, use ones without indicator lights or switches.
3. Clean all audio power sockets and pins before first use (can be surprisingly grimy).
4. Separate the power cables from interconnects (even if balanced).

I'm not using audiophile power cables, sockets or mains treatments.
Why, if you have gone to all that trouble, I did all this 10 years ago & it has taken me until now to even think of trying a cable, glad I did but took way too long to do it.
 
Why, if you have gone to all that trouble,
It wasn't that much trouble.

I haven't tried any fancy power cables yet but I might, at some point. I've not come across a great explanation of why they'd help but that doesn't mean an explanation doesn't exist, I suppose.
 
2 dedicated radial circuits & a Grahams Hydra

Sorted

;) :mad: :)

To separate c.u. or do they share the domestic one? Interesting that you use a hydra (on one circuit?) which suggests that you need more radials installed.:) Wonder if your hydra is hard-wired via a connecting block or via socket and plug.
 
It wasn't that much trouble.

I haven't tried any fancy power cables yet but I might, at some point. I've not come across a great explanation of why they'd help but that doesn't mean an explanation doesn't exist, I suppose.
I think the conclusion I have come to about this matter after reading all the different views on here is that this mains issue is very system dependent & also power supply dependant as I imagine all who say they have not experienced a positive effect from mains leads are not lying & the same goes for those who have a positive effect like myself, I am certainly not lying about the results I experienced & was lucky enough to experience a very positive result from what amounts to a £7 mains lead I made myself, I certainly wasn't to go & pay lot's of money for this, just try something simple to hear if my system would benefit from it. I suppose the lucky ones are the guys on here who have not heard a difference, it probably means they have nice clean power supplies or their systems do not react badly to dirty mains supplies, good I say, save money & enjoy your music.

It seems silly to me for one side to say they are right & the other to say they are, I think both camps maybe correct here, be very interesting to see a large list of those who have tried this with no improvement & those who have experienced an improvement as to where they live, their own personal setups etc.. I suppose if this theory is correct no testing is going to work under lab type conditions due to the fact that it may vary widely with different mains supplies & personal systems.

If you did decide to try a cable start cheap like did, £7 isn't going to break the bank & if you hear no improvement I'm sure someone on here would purchase it from you & try it for themselves.
 
I think the conclusion I have come to about this matter after reading all the different views on here is that this mains issue is very system dependent & also power supply dependant as I imagine all who say they have not experienced a positive effect from mains leads are not lying & the same goes for those who have a positive effect like myself, I am certainly not lying about the results I experienced & was lucky enough to experience a very positive result from what amounts to a £7 mains lead I made myself, I certainly wasn't to go & pay lot's of money for this, just try something simple to hear if my system would benefit from it. I suppose the lucky ones are the guys on here who have not heard a difference, it probably means they have nice clean power supplies or their systems do not react badly to dirty mains supplies, good I say, save money & enjoy your music.

It seems silly to me for one side to say they are right & the other to say they are, I think both camps maybe correct here, be very interesting to see a large list of those who have tried this with no improvement & those who have experienced an improvement as to where they live, their own personal setups etc.. I suppose if this theory is correct no testing is going to work under lab type conditions due to the fact that it may vary widely with different mains supplies & personal systems.

If you did decide to try a cable start cheap like did, £7 isn't going to break the bank & if you hear no improvement I'm sure someone on here would purchase it from you & try it for themselves.

I realised last night that the MCRU 14 mains cable is the same as LEET's DIY jobbie as it uses the same Belden cable with shield. That was the first cable I ever tried first of all on my Amp (no change there) and now it is used on my CD player but makes no difference. So I have tried the same as LEET to no benefit (at greater cost of course). It works for some but not all.

As LEET says give it a go I did.
 
To separate c.u. or do they share the domestic one? Interesting that you use a hydra (on one circuit?) which suggests that you need more radials installed.:) Wonder if your hydra is hard-wired via a connecting block or via socket and plug.

One old-fashioned 60's CU; 2 hi-fi radials first on strip and I can't be arsed ripping up the floorboards again . . .

Results are 100% adequate; my pratting about with mains ended a long time ago.

Hydra MK plug into Harry MK twin unswitched socket - bollox to hardwiring; I value my insurance policy.

Any more questions, Mike? ;)

Cheers, H
 
Cheers, H. Bit of a mixed bag there. With radials you don't need fuses (in plugs) assuming you're covered at the c.u. end so no insurance issues.
 
Just measurements using a sensitive oscilloscope and an agilent HF spectrum analyzer, and of course double-blind ABX tests. I have compared Belden medical-grade shielded power cables, some standard industrial cables that came with a Cisco router, the power cable that came with my Creek amp, and a simple 1.5 mm "lamp cord" cable. No difference in the output of the amp.

I would like to hear a credible technical explanation for why power cables would make a difference.

Perfect example of trying to create the illusion of specialist tests conducted and of course double blind abx. When questioned disappears down a rat hole.:)

A person so married to abx I thought would have jumped on the opportunity to help others do testing to their rigorous standards. :rolleyes:
 
tonerei, do you really think people should rush out and buy an agilent HF analyzer? Do you have any idea how much they cost?

You're deliberately being obtuse and trying to discredit someone because they don't share your viewpoint, and have more knowledge than you in this area.

How did you conduct your own blind testing? With what controls? With what equipment have you measured the performance of your own mains cables?
 
tonerei, do you really think people should rush out and buy an agilent HF analyzer? Do you have any idea how much they cost?

You're deliberately being obtuse and trying to discredit someone because they don't share your viewpoint, and have more knowledge than you in this area.

How did you conduct your own blind testing? With what controls? With what equipment have you measured the performance of your own mains cables?

Really avole that is rubbish. The same person consistently demands evidence proof and questions what methods were used during testing if anybody makes any suggestion of improvement. It would be clear to most people that his post was constructed to convey a superiority and attention to detail in testing that renders his opinion fact.
I think simply asking him to outline how this test was conducted since he has access to this equipment is not unreasonable and is the same as your question to me. Again as I have often posted here any person who has such faith in these tests would jump at the opportunity to outline the controls and methods etc.

To answer your question: Don't blind test or evaluate any power cables I have and have never posted anywhere that they either improved or reduced SQ. Cheers and Peace b:)ro
 
He answered your question, what more did you want? Now you accuse him of being devious, which, to be honest, could equally apply to some of your posts.
 
Perfect example of trying to create the illusion of specialist tests conducted and of course double blind abx. When questioned disappears down a rat hole.:)

A person so married to abx I thought would have jumped on the opportunity to help others do testing to their rigorous standards. :rolleyes:

"When questioned disappears down a rat hole"? Right...

I answered your question. I did not answer the subsequent questioning, as you clearly weren't actually interested in the results. More than happy to provide more information, as long as you can assure me it doesn't lead to even sillier stuff like "and what power lead did your analyzer use".
 
He answered your question, what more did you want? Now you accuse him of being devious, which, to be honest, could equally apply to some of your posts.

Again as per usual all untrue. I hope when you abx blind test you take more care.:) If you read down through the thread up until your last post. No answer supplied to question. Julf has responded since with the usual batting.:)

Simple fact avole people like yourself ask questions and demand proof etc.
Unless I am missing something very obvious on these threads, I have never seen you provide any evidence of testing or success or lack of success or any info whatsoever about abx Double blind testing etc. You just make 2 or 3 line comments aimed at anybody who reports something. That seems to be your role here. Hope you are on a retainer as it seems a very boring existence?
 
You see why I have decided to try to avoid responding to tonerei (I do make rare exceptions to straighten out the most silly misrepresentations)...
 


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