Grace F-9 with Soundsmith stylus. Take this for what it's worth -but I REALLY like the BOTL bonded elliptical . $150 each -I bought four. As proof of my plebeian taste -I like these better than the sapphire cantilevered line contact from Soundsmith -which is very good -but the cheaper stylus simply sounds better playing music to my ears. I have yet to find a good OEM stylus for the F-9 -but that cart with a Soundsmith stylus is pretty amazing.
Suggestions for Reference level vintage MM carts.
- Thread starter Rexton
- Start date
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Also worth checking Da Capo Audio in Denmark who carry most Jico needles and have been very quick and efficient when I've used them. Whether they work out cheaper than direct from Jico is probably down to that days exchange rate.
Thanks, part of the journey has been tracking down companies that are prepared to ship to the UK and supply stylii for the cartridges that I think might make good candidates. It's not quite so daunting when you start refining your search. I've decided that tonearm compliance is another big big thing for me. I think the SME V-12 is still probably a top drawer arm (altough I take no notice of silly super high end stuff) and as a consequence should be able to handle most if not all these vintage MM's. It's also easy see the most coveted vintage MM's when you start looking at prices from Japan / China, generally the higher the price the more desirable, and yes I do realise that this is a very rough rule of thumb. It's great fun. I look at my humble little Shure M55e with it's JICO SAS/B stylus and Panzerholz body and think of the sheer delight that it brings when I spin some Jazz or a newly found DECCA SXL. Presently, I have had no desire to listen to some of the cartridge I own costing several £K
I finally managed to find time to properly install the Panzerholz cartridge body for my hot rodded Shure M55E, and here she is.
The Panzerholz body has really transformed this M55E and I have to say that the new body is as equally important as the JICO SAS/B stylus in making this vintage cartridge a giant killer. I've not switeched on my Garrard 301 now for five weeks and it has a cartridge costing many times that of the M55E even taking into account the cost of the modifications. This cartridge now surpasses the performance of a Ortofon 2M black cartridge and without all the messing around associated with set up of these cartridges. Musical seperation bewteen instruments is staggering. Detail is staggering. I'm extremely happy with this cartridge and the argument for a JICO SAS/R is now more than justified. I'm hoping to buy one at some this year and this should push performance even further. Installing the new body has not been without problems. I did have to increase the diameter of the screw hole shafts in the body by several mm's to accomodate my mounting screws but that was no big deal. So, the M55E is now sitting parallel with the record surface, loaded with 500pF of capacitance, tracks at 1.25g with 1.1g of bias applied. I would say that I've put about 10-15 hours on the cart now so not quite broken in but each hour is a true joy!
Stay tuned.....
The Panzerholz body has really transformed this M55E and I have to say that the new body is as equally important as the JICO SAS/B stylus in making this vintage cartridge a giant killer. I've not switeched on my Garrard 301 now for five weeks and it has a cartridge costing many times that of the M55E even taking into account the cost of the modifications. This cartridge now surpasses the performance of a Ortofon 2M black cartridge and without all the messing around associated with set up of these cartridges. Musical seperation bewteen instruments is staggering. Detail is staggering. I'm extremely happy with this cartridge and the argument for a JICO SAS/R is now more than justified. I'm hoping to buy one at some this year and this should push performance even further. Installing the new body has not been without problems. I did have to increase the diameter of the screw hole shafts in the body by several mm's to accomodate my mounting screws but that was no big deal. So, the M55E is now sitting parallel with the record surface, loaded with 500pF of capacitance, tracks at 1.25g with 1.1g of bias applied. I would say that I've put about 10-15 hours on the cart now so not quite broken in but each hour is a true joy!
Stay tuned.....
Tony L
Administrator
What stylus is that? Looks like M35 type rather than an M44/55 in grip design. If so are you sure it is right?
<nerd>The M44/M55 and V15/I all used the same very early Shure generator. The angle of the generator is pretty much parallel to the record surface. With the later V15/II, M75 and all later designs they altered the geometry substantially to tilt the generator assembly down in line with the cantilever rather than needing the gentle ‘s’ double-bend of the M44/55 and V15/I. I’d expect the M35 body type to have the later alignment angle which would knock SRA off pretty substantially. </nerd>
<nerd>The M44/M55 and V15/I all used the same very early Shure generator. The angle of the generator is pretty much parallel to the record surface. With the later V15/II, M75 and all later designs they altered the geometry substantially to tilt the generator assembly down in line with the cantilever rather than needing the gentle ‘s’ double-bend of the M44/55 and V15/I. I’d expect the M35 body type to have the later alignment angle which would knock SRA off pretty substantially. </nerd>
Tony L
Administrator
I’ve just googled it and it is a stylus for the M447X, which is (as I suspected) a variation of the SC35 body, not the M44/M55. The generator angle is very different between this body and a M44/M55.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
It does look a lot like the N-44-7X SAS/B: https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/n-44-7x-sas-b/
The N44-7 IMP SAS/B looks like a traditional M44/55 stylus: https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/n44-7-imp-sas-b/
From what I can tell from a quick google Shure replaced the M44-7 with a different body, called it the M44-7X then later reintroduced the M44-7 and renamed the M44-7X the M35X.
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, that’s about the timeline, and looking at the SC35 body/generator closely it wouldn’t surprise me if it was based on the M95/V15/III, or maybe the M97 (which is much the same generator). Looking at it from the back it looks very similar anyway. All Shures are very similar, they got it amazingly right from the M3D onwards. The big changes really being the change of generator angle with the V15/II and the ongoing pursuit of ever lower tip-mass, higher compliance and lower tracking weights across the V15 timeline. Arguably taking it too far! Everything else was a spin-off from that with far more robust and heavier tracking ranges for DJs and jukeboxes.
PS I‘ve ended up a big fan of the M44/M55E, they get so much right and are great fun. It would be interesting to try one of the SC35 models at some point. They certainly have some fans.
PS I‘ve ended up a big fan of the M44/M55E, they get so much right and are great fun. It would be interesting to try one of the SC35 models at some point. They certainly have some fans.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I have an untested body knocking around somewhere. I should really £20 in a Tonar stylus and see if it works.
The 3-5g tracking force scares me a little though!
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, that is what has put me off. That said people with SPUs don’t seem to trash their vinyl. The heaviest I’ve tried is 2.5 with a DL-103, M44E or M44-7. I’m sure they are all safe. I get the impression conical tips are safer heavier than elliptical ones, but one has to assume the manufacturer knows what they are doing and the recommendation is safe. The Shure pro-use stuff is likely perfectly safe at the bottom of its stated range, the higher weights needed to keep it in the groove in less than ideal operating conditions (scratch DJs, jukeboxes etc). As an example I felt the M44E was perfectly happy at 2.2g or so, its range is 1.75-4g.
Tony L
Administrator
Just to return briefly to the change in generator angle between the M44/55 & V15/1, and everything that came later I took a picture to better illustrate what I was trying to explain upthread:
On the left is a M55E and its stylus, on the right a M95ED and its stylus (I removed its stylus guard for the pic). The change in generator angle is very clear to see. This geometry change was introduced with the V15/II in 1966 has been a feature of every Shure cartridge from that point onwards.
On the left is a M55E and its stylus, on the right a M95ED and its stylus (I removed its stylus guard for the pic). The change in generator angle is very clear to see. This geometry change was introduced with the V15/II in 1966 has been a feature of every Shure cartridge from that point onwards.
Robert
Tapehead
The 205 was a masterpiece but sadly the suspensions on anything original or NOS is likely shot.
The single point suspension has aged badly on these.
You can fit a Jico and they still sound good but the originals had incredibly low mass hollow boron (or was it beryllium) cantilevers and top quality stones. The last production 205 series had moving mass that Ortofon etc can only dream of today. Technics need to revive them!
The less costly 202 isn't far behind and it came standard on the SL7 TT in P mount form.
I have its standard mount version with a Jico SAS and it's very good. Not impacted by the usually encountered load variations.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Mine didn't but I guess it had a few owners before it reached me. I think it came with a P24.
Am I right in thinking all the P2x (P22-28) cart bodies are all the same?
I've ruled out all the suggested EPC Technics carts for that one reason, the knackered suspension. I've read countless threads quoting buyer beware warnings on these carts so that's another one crossed off the list. The good news is that the list is getting smaller. 